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SM 1U (Universal Beta) Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Ed, Dec 19, 2016.

  1. Ed

    Ed Fizikaly defensive Rotom-Spin Member

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    Credit to Disaster Area for format.

    Welcome to the SM 1U Viability Ranking Thread! In case you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in certain ranks here, based on their impact on the tier as well as their general viability in the tier. This is an excellent help while teambuilding and it serves as a general outline of the tier. Furthermore it is used in our formation of the tier below.

    If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it - that's what this thread is for. As long as you are reasonably sensible and courteous this thread should run smoothly.

    Pokémon are sorted into the respective categories based on how well they perform their roles. Within each ranking Pokemon are listed alphabetically to avoid overcomplication.

    Banlist/Rules

    S Rank

    These Pokemon excel at their roles in the tier to such a point that they are the most dominating forces.

    [​IMG] Arceus-Ghost
    [​IMG] Ho-oh
    [​IMG] Kyogre
    [​IMG] Xerneas

    A Rank

    These Pokemon perform significant roles in the metagame, and perform them very well, however they are not the most dominating forces.

    A+
    [​IMG] Dialga
    [​IMG] Groudon
    [​IMG] Lucario (Mega)
    [​IMG]Mewtwo (Regular)
    [​IMG] Palkia
    [​IMG] Yveltal

    A
    [​IMG] Arceus
    [​IMG] Arceus-Dark
    [​IMG] Arceus-Water
    [​IMG] Deoxys-A
    [​IMG] Deoxys-S
    [​IMG] Genesect
    [​IMG] Lunala
    [​IMG] Rayquaza
    [​IMG] Zekrom

    A-
    [​IMG] Arceus-Electric
    [​IMG] Arceus-Fairy
    [​IMG] Arceus-Grass
    [​IMG] Chansey
    [​IMG] Darkrai
    [​IMG] Giratina-O
    [​IMG] Klefki
    [​IMG] Lugia
    [​IMG] Sableye (Mega)
    [​IMG] Tapu Lele
    [​IMG] Zygarde-C

    B Rank

    These Pokemon are strong choices in the metagame, but perform less important roles or are less consistent than Pokémon in the Rank above. They have larger flaws than Pokémon in above ranks, or face greater competition from similar Pokemon, reducing their usefulness.

    B+
    [​IMG] Arceus-Ground
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    [​IMG] Gliscor
    [​IMG] Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Magearna
    [​IMG] Toxapex

    B
    [​IMG]
    Aegislash
    [​IMG] Arceus-Rock
    [​IMG] Celesteela
    [​IMG] Dugtrio
    [​IMG] Giratina
    [​IMG] Jirachi
    [​IMG] Kangaskhan (Mega)
    [​IMG] Shaymin-S
    [​IMG] Solgaleo
    [​IMG] Sylveon
    [​IMG] Tapu Koko
    [​IMG] Terrakion

    B-
    [​IMG] Arceus-Poison
    [​IMG] Blissey
    [​IMG] Clefable
    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Reshiram
    [​IMG] Pheromosa
    [​IMG] Skarmory
    [​IMG] Tyranitar (Regular)

    C Rank

    These Pokemon are more infrequent sights in the metagame, particularly in top level matches, but are nevertheless viable Pokemon. They are less effective in the metagame than Pokémon in above ranks, but are effective with proper support.


    C+
    [​IMG] Arceus-Fighting
    [​IMG] Blaziken (Regular)
    [​IMG] Bronzong
    [​IMG] Cloyster
    [​IMG] Excadrill
    [​IMG] Kartana
    [​IMG] Nihilego
    [​IMG] Scolipede
    [​IMG] Smeargle

    C
    [​IMG] Arceus-Steel
    [​IMG] Gastrodon
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Kyurem-W
    [​IMG] Latias (Regular)
    [​IMG] Latios (Regular)
    [​IMG] Metagross (Mega)
    [​IMG] Scizor (Regular)
    [​IMG] Scizor (Mega)
    [​IMG] Slowbro (Mega)
    [​IMG] Tapu Fini
    [​IMG] Whimsicott

    C-
    [​IMG] Alomomola
    [​IMG] Amoonguss
    [​IMG] Arceus-Dragon
    [​IMG] Arceus-Flying
    [​IMG] Arceus-Psychic
    [​IMG] Buzzwole
    [​IMG] Chesnaught
    [​IMG] Cresselia
    [​IMG] Ditto
    [​IMG] Forretress
    [​IMG] Garchomp (Regular)
    [​IMG] Gyarados (Mega)
    [​IMG] Greninja
    [​IMG] Greninja-Ash
    [​IMG] Hoopa-U
    [​IMG] Mantine
    [​IMG] Muk-Alola
    [​IMG] Necrozma
    [​IMG] Pyukumuku
    [​IMG] Salamence (Regular)
    [​IMG] Silvally
    [​IMG] Tentacruel
    [​IMG] Thundurus
    [​IMG] Umbreon
    [​IMG] Venusaur (Mega)
    [​IMG] Tapu Bulu
    [​IMG] Xurkitree
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
  2. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I thought Complete Forme triggered in-battle when 50% dropped below half HP?
     
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  3. Ed

    Ed Fizikaly defensive Rotom-Spin Member

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    It is, but because it is a Forme, it should be treated as a seperate Pokemon for tiering purposes.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I think we should make another thread to discuss this; I'll put one up later.

    -

    Edit: Here it is All Gens - Tiering of Formes | Pokémon Perfect
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2016
  5. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar True love Member

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    Why is Darkrai in A-? S doesn't give a piss about it besides GhostCeus, Dark Void now has disgusting 50% accuracy, and it has the pretty awful cost of losing out on Yveltal or DarkCeus for a team. I can't see the thing being used hardly at all on a serious team I build when DarkCeus and Yveltal are far better and more consistent options.
     
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  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    well it does have Hypnosis which is worth noting
     
  7. Peef Rimgar

    Peef Rimgar True love Member

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    But is a 50% chance to,be effective a good enough niche for A-? I'd rather use the aforementioned DarkCeus or Yveltal 99 times out of 100
     
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    it's not 50% it's 60%.

    And I don't know if its main merits are to abuse sleep any more, it still has blistering speed and nasty plot too

    Also no opportunity cost of taking up your arceus slot
     
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Is MegaMence really on par with the ORAS dick-measuring squad?
     
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Do you mean, is it really as overpowered as the other stuff that's banned? The answer is yes, easily. Think rayquaza with more bulk, roost, intimidate for easier set up, the ability to run bulky sets too, and the power level is pretty similar thanks to aerialate and almost the same base attack stat. Also the difference between 95 and 120 as a base speed is huge in this tier: the range of speed tiers for common Pokemon is pretty small, almost everything has between 90 and 130, so there's a significant number of Pokemon 120 outspeeds that 95 doesn't: Yveltal and Xerneas, Palkia, non max speed arceus forms (common on support arceus), mega lucario, and lunala, just to pick out important stuff in A and S.

    There's probably a lot wrong with these rankings because the metagame is currently very much undertested. It's possible Zygarde-C is broken, for example, or Kyogre.
     
  11. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I'm still feeling my way around this tier so I'm not super confident on anything, but I feel that TTar might be overrated. It just has too many weaknesses and at no point in my matches today did I feel confident bringing it in. To me it feels out of place, especially with stuff like Lando-T which has a lot going for it (even if in practice it can't do everything)
     
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  12. DMA

    DMA Also known as CKW on SmogForums Member

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    I think Ferrothorn should be A- Rank. In a metagame where Kyogre stands at S-Rank, Ferrothorn happens to be one of very few Pokemon that's able to switch into it. Ferrothorn can also check special variants of Xerneas as well as EKiller Arceus. It also learns Spikes and can be very annoying to face when supported with Rain-setters like Kyogre itself. Thus, I really think Ferrothorn should be A- Rank.
     
  13. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    it can't switch into specsogre, Xerneas can lure it with Focus Blast / HP Fire / Close Combat, Ekiller can run a Fire move if it's too common. I don't know how common Zekrom is which is the other major thing it responds to. And it can't get up Spikes versus Mega Sableye easily.
     
  14. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I still think TTar is overrated and ought to drop js.

    I also think the two Arc forms in A+ are overrated. NormalCeus (or EKA, does anyone use it defensively?) just offers too little defensive synergy- a bit of revenge killing (still doesn't eliminate the need for a Scarfer or 1/2 other priority users) and that's it. Offensively it's just massively overhyped, as it lacks the power to threaten dedicated walls while still being able to be revenge killed by numerous pokemon. Idk, I've never found it too difficult to handle and I've never found myself in a situation where it feels like the obvious choice for a team, I instead find it something to build around.

    Darkeus on the other hand is just not good enough imo. I used the mono-CM set and it just felt like such a liability, as threats such as Luc and Xern get in for free and easily stop it in its tracks. If it does have one of those stops it provides nothing to the team, and it has trouble breaking past them as well, which make it extremely matchup dependent. Unless there's some set I'm overlooking I think it deserves a drop. Actually now that I think on it, it would make a pretty solid Defogger I guess, since there's basically nothing that both sets hazards and threatens it out. Except Klefki I guess.

    Maybe it's just that I really love SupportCeus???
    On that note, maybe SteelCeus deserves a rise? Steel type is awesome because it offers tons of resistances and also it's immune to Toxic, which is great since Toxic is the easiest way for a hazard setter to fuck with an incoming Defogger.

    As long as Kyogre is in the tier Palkia ought to be A+ imo. There is literally nothing else that is that effective at stopping Ogre while maintaining a strong offensive presence.

    Dialga for A+. It's just such a good glue mon, with a ton of resistances, good bulk, few weaknesses and a variety of offensive and support options

    Is Blissey really that close to Chansey in viability?
     
  15. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I guess the main thing steelceus competes with is poisonceus, which is also toxic immune and is a better xerneas answer (although since xern can't boost its speed its maybe not the biggest deal) and it's bigger ho-oh bait, not a blaziken check, although it does have a handy dragon resistance and stuff... also unlike arc-poison it can't really run an offensive set anywhere near as effectively
    +1 with the disappearance of the lati twins
    It kind of matters how good sand is I guess so the answer is probably not really.
     
  16. Ed

    Ed Fizikaly defensive Rotom-Spin Member

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    EKA is still a solid option on offense due to its revenge and cleaning roles. It always had issues vs. dedicated checks/walls, but it has a harder time vs. them in the current generation because other offensive threats either got stronger and have stronger STABS/attacking stats (Kyogre, Arceus-Ghost, Mega-Lucario, Rayquaza, etc.). Ekiller also struggles vs. Ghosts, which most of the tier's top mons can pressure effectively.

    As for Arceus-Dark, being weak to Mega-Lucario and Xerneas, while not resisting Kyogre as well makes it harder to fit on a team, so it definitely should drop.

    Agreed. I've briefly mentioned Dialga for a possible rise on Discord, and Palkia is a good nomination as well.
    All other points have been addressed by Disaster Area, so I'll move on.

    I'll have the update of the VR up shortly, so keep an eye on that.
     
  17. Ed

    Ed Fizikaly defensive Rotom-Spin Member

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    Update:

    Zygarde-C: S >>> A-
    Arceus: A+ >>> A
    Arceus-Dark: A+ >>> A
    Dialga: A >>> A+
    Palkia: A >>> A+
    Lucario (Mega): A >>>A+
    Solgaleo: A >>> B
    Arceus-Rock: A- >>> B
    Arceus-Water: A- >>> A
    Pheromosa: B+ >>> B-
    Tyranitar (Regular): B+ >>> B-
    Chansey: B >>> A-
    Giratina: C+ >>> B

    Zygarde-C: S >>> A-
    First thought to be hard to break due to its bulk, in reality it has some noticeable flaws: it doesn't have the power to take advantage of the bulk, Rest is its only recovery option (mandatory on defensive sets), and reliant on its ability to access the bulk.

    Lucario (Mega): A >>> A+
    The speed mechanic change allowed Mega Lucario to become more threatening than it was before, solidifying its position as one of the metagame's top offensive powerhouses.

    Solgaleo: A >>> B
    In a metagame with increased presence of Dark and Ghost-type Pokemon, Solgaleo struggles since it doesn't provide any of the utilities (offensive and defensive) the other Steel-types do, such as Genesect, Jirachi, Celesteela, and Klefki, to name a few.

    Arceus-Rock: A- >>> B
    It's in a tough position at the moment due to its typing, and faces competition from other Arceus formes.

    Arceus-Water: A- >>> A
    Arceus-Water, due to its stellar defensive typing and being splashable, fares better than other competing Arceus formes in A-.

    Pheromosa: B+ >>> B-
    While having STAB U-Turn + Fighting and 137/137/151 offenses makes it solid attacker, it's let down by its abysmal defensive prowess, and has no to tools to combat Ghost-types; in other words, it faces competition from Genesect.

    Tyranitar (Regular): B >>> B-
    Tyranitar suffers from the increased presence of Mega Lucario and Kyogre, and the Soul Dew nerf gives less reason to include it in a team.

    Chansey: B >>> A-
    Has the best special bulk in the tier, and is a very popular option in bulky team archetypes.

    Giratina: C+ >>> B
    One of the better Mega Lucario checks (and to an extent Kyogre), while also providing status, phazing and hazard control utility with its bulk.

    Discuss the viability of the following Pokemon:
    [​IMG] Ho-Oh
    [​IMG] Mawile (Mega)
    [​IMG] Mewtwo (Mega-X)
    [​IMG] Mewtwo (Mega-Y)
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017
    DMA likes this.
  18. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    why'd arc-rock/arc-water drop so much? is ho-oh still as relevant as in oras?
     
  19. Ed

    Ed Fizikaly defensive Rotom-Spin Member

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    Writing error on Arc-Water, it should say A, not B; Rock dropped because of the increased presence of Kyogre and Mega Lucario. Since most of the changes were discussed elsewhere, I'll include the reasons in the update post.

    Thanks for reminding me about Ho-Oh. I intended for it to be discussed along with the Megas, though I forgot about it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2017

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