RBY Mewbers / 1R Viability Rankings

Brought Tauros to S and dropped Chansey to A. Chansey really feels like a wildcard. It can absorb paralysis and prevent your opp from spreading more status if you play it right, but it can also be dead weight. It's still really good, but it feel less essential than it does in 1U. A seems right to me, too.

Sounds like the next big question is - where do the Ice Pokemon go? We had question about Cloyster and Articuno, and now Ortheore has advocated for Lapras. I will hold off on adding any of these until we get a "second" from someone.

Also have a vote to create a C ranking for Starmie and Jolteon. I will chew on that, as well as think about what other Pokemon would be worth mentioning in C.

 

Arguably the worst fully evolved water-type in RBY (likely to be the only one not to make 5U) and yet it may have a valid niche in mewbers? :O

 

I think the big problem is, "these are good against Mew and Snorlax if they don't carry Earthquake," but Gengar is, too, and better. If Mew or Snorlax are carrying coverage, Omastar and Kabutops have zero place on a team. But let's say they don't:

Let's look at Kabutops for a second, since that has a niche offensively with Slash for Reflect-breaking.

Kabutops vs Mew:

Slash: Kabutops Slash vs. Mew on a critical hit: 109-129 (27 - 32%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Hyper Beam: +2 Kabutops Hyper Beam vs. Mew through Reflect: 119-140 (29.5 - 34.7%) -- 8.2% chance to 3HKO
Hyper Beam: +4 Kabutops Hyper Beam vs. Mew through Reflect: 178-210 (44.1 - 52.1%) -- 14.7% chance to 2HKO

Whereas ...

Body Slam: +6 Mew Body Slam vs. Kabutops: 98-116 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- 41.7% chance to 3HKO
Body Slam: +6 Mew Body Slam vs. Kabutops through Reflect: 49-58 (15.1 - 17.9%) -- possible 6HKO

If you happen to get Kabutops in a "good" place with Reflect up, it can, on paper, stand up to Mew for a while, but I don't picture Kabutops ever actually forcing Mew out (especially since whatever you switch into Kabutops wouldn't like eating whatever attack is coming). Mew can Recover off Slash damage at a leisurely pace, paralyze Kabutops with Body Slam (and crit with it!), and without recovery, Kabutops doesn't have the room to set up Reflect *and* get to +4 Swords Dance (it might get to +2). At +2, it is impossible for Kabutops to KO Mew with Slash/Slash/Hyper Beam.

Gengar vs Mew:

Night Shade: Gengar Night Shade vs. Mew: 100-100 (24.8 - 24.8%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
Thunderbolt: Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Mew: 82-97 (20.3 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Gengar, however, can sit in mono-Mew's face all day. It won't get chip damage, it won't get paralyzed, and you can easily PP stall Mew's Softboiled (trickier if you carry only one attack, but even with just one attack you'll deplete Mew's PP enough that your own Mew will win the war when it comes in later). Plus, Thunderbolt can crit. Bottom line: you've just forced Mew out.

Kabutops vs Snorlax:

Slash: Kabutops Slash vs. Snorlax on a critical hit: 142-167 (27.1 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
Hyper Beam: +2 Kabutops Hyper Beam vs. Snorlax through Reflect: 155-183 (29.6 - 34.9%) -- 13.5% chance to 3HKO
Hyper Beam: +4 Kabutops Hyper Beam vs. Snorlax through Reflect: 232-273 (44.3 - 52.1%) -- 15.8% chance to 2HKO

Whereas ...

Body Slam: Snorlax Body Slam vs. Kabutops: 47-56 (14.5 - 17.3%) -- possible 6HKO
Body Slam: Snorlax Body Slam vs. Kabutops through Reflect: 23-28 (7.1 - 8.6%) -- possibly the worst move ever

Offensively, Kabutops doesn't do much better against Reflect Snorlax than it does against Reflect Mew. Defensively, however, Kabutops actually fares really well. Plus, by forcing Snorlax to Rest, Kabutops has more room to set up Swords Dance or Reflect. On the flip side, even if Kabutops will eventually take Snorlax down, Snorlax can still paralyze with Body Slam on the way out, and a paralyzed Kabutops is pretty worthless.

Gengar vs Snorlax:

Night Shade: Gengar Night Shade vs. Snorlax: 100-100 (19.1 - 19.1%) -- guaranteed 6HKO
Thunderbolt: Gengar Thunderbolt vs. Snorlax: 107-126 (20.4 - 24%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

Gengar doesn't do much offensively to Snorlax (although it can win with hax if Thunderbolts crit at the right time in the rest cycle), but if it's mono Snorlax, it can sit there all day.

The only place where Kabutops actually does better than Gengar is against Chansey, but ...

Slash: Kabutops Slash vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 297-350 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Hyper Beam: +2 Kabutops Hyper Beam vs. Chansey through Reflect: 326-384 (46.3 - 54.6%) -- 60.9% chance to 2HKO

Thunderbolt: Chansey Thunderbolt vs. Kabutops: 180-212 (55.7 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Seismic Toss: Chansey Seismic Toss vs. Kabutops: 100-100 (30.9 - 30.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

If Chansey has Thunderbolt, it outpaces Slash. Kabutops's Slash+Hyper Beam at +2 is a roll, and you're screwed if it's low and you have to recharge. If Chansey has Seismic Toss instead, it does enough damage to make Kabutops mortally crippled on the way out. Plus, Thunder-Wave cripples Kabutops and gives Chansey an opportunity to get ahead with Softboileds.

Omastar doesn't have a chance to threaten physically, but its Hydro Pump can hurt Snorlax and Mew, but not Chansey.

Since Gengar is better than Kabutops and Omastar versus Snorlax and Mew anyway, the only edge comes in the matchup vs Chansey, where Omastar can't compete. And again, if Snorlax/Mew *do* carry Earthquake, Kabutops and Omastar have no business on your team, but at least Gengar is a good lead/sleeper.

Where I see Kabutops working is if it has a chance to get in and set up Reflect and/or at least one Swords Dance before Mew/Chansey/Snorlax have a chance to get in, because I don't think you can bring Kabutops into any of them safely and force them out, AND if most of the opposing team is paralyzed so you can outspeed for a true sweep. But that would be really tough to do since a fresh Kabutops that isn't set up can't stand a chance against the rest of the tier (Kabutops is outsped by Tauros who can 2HKO with Earthquake, Gengar who can 2HKO with Thunderbolt or Mega Drain, Alakazam who can 2HKO with Psychic, Starmie who can 2HKO with Thunderbolt, and all of them have high crit rates, Zapdos can OHKO ...). Not to mention, if you're running the Kabutops set I think you're suggesting (Swords Dance/Slash/Hyper Beam/Reflect), you are ALSO completely walled by Gengar. Basically, it seems very situational and even then only in specific match-ups that are hard to manipulate to your advantage.

Granted, I don't think anyone has actually used either Omastar or Kabutops in Mewbers, so if that happens and it actually works, I will be extremely impressed and happy to put them on the rankings ... but on paper I don't really see it yet.

 

Agreed. Swapping Eggy and Slowbro between S and A.

 

Sooo I used Persian and Cloyster in my series vs Tim. Persian barely did anything so it's hard to say how effective it is, but I think its viability is little changed from ou (so D rank or w/e). Cloyster is pretty decent, obviously a bit matchup dependent, but I think it's overall better than in ou, since there's simply more physical attackers around. Not sure it manages to climb a rank though

 

If Reflect Mews become more popular maybe there'd be greater draw to Persian?

 

Hey everyone; bumping this up because Smogon is hosting a Mewbers tour. To anyone who is playing, please give any new/final thoughts on the viability rankings. We left this relatively unfinished, so I'd like to give one last pass for polish

Lutra Peasounay Linkin Karp Diegolh

 

Golem to A, golem is the jesus bird answer (zapdos is common af), it booms on any annoying target for your mew set and gives you the upper hand v non eq mew. edit: guess rhydon could go somewhere idk i feel like the boom is way too valuable here but more damage vs lax is always good i guess (B or new C rank ?)

Jynx to B, sleeping smth is ok but the tier is filled with physical attackers and Gengar is one of the most common leads since it walls non eq mew

Cloyster to B (for now?), huge physical wall in such a tier + boom is good to get rid of a annoying target for your mew set

Slowbro for S can rly be debated imo, non beam mew has a tough time against it and it supports v well vs lax/bull and supports vs egg for your mew as well. literally good v everything bar zap/not that common mie who is easy to handle and crippling egg is always good in mewbers

Starmie could go to A at some point, good v everything not named mew/zap (twaving chans ain't even bad)

Aerodactyl has some sort of a niche walling all lax and mews but it might not even be C so i'm not suggesting another rank for it yet

rest seems fine

 

I'm lazzy as fuck so I won't write something myself.
I agree with peas for Golem, Jynx and Cloyster (cloyster is really nice imo);
Not sure about Slowbro and Mie tho.