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RBY 1R (Mewbers) Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Golden Gyarados, Jul 15, 2016.

  1. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    Welcome to the RBY 1R - Mewbers Viability Ranking Thread! If you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in ranks, based on how necessary they are on highly competitive teams. It will hopefully give you a good impression of the tier, to help with teambuilding. Pokémon are sorted alphabetically within each rank.

    If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it – that's what this thread is for.

    Tier Format:
    • Banned Moves: Dig, Double Team, Fissure, Fly, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Minimize (Evasion + Invulnerability + OHKO moves).
    • Clauses: Freeze Clause, Sleep Clause, Species Clause.
    • Banned Pokemon: Mewtwo
    "M" Rank

    This Pokemon is overpowered for the RBY 1U tier and dominates the RBY Mewbers tier (heck, it's right there in the title!). It should be used on every single serious team (otherwise, why aren't you just playing 1U?).

    M
    [​IMG]Mew – Physical sweeper, mixed wall, paralysis spreader, and boomer – best fellow Mew check; scariest threat for standard Mewbers teams. Note that the Transform set is much less viable in Mewbers than 1P.


    S Rank

    These Pokemon excel at their roles in the RBY Mewbers tier to such a point that you find most of them on serious teams.

    S
    [​IMG]
    Exeggutor – Sleeper, paralysis spreader, boomer, psychic and ground resist.


    [​IMG]Snorlax – Mixed tank, paralysis spreader (via Body Slam) and boomer. Reflect checks Mew, Amnesia helps it break Mew.
    [​IMG]Tauros - Fast physical tank & paralysis spreader (via Body Slam).


    [​IMG] Zapdos - Mixed bulky sweeper, screener, paralysis spreader. – Checks Chansey and Slowbro.

    A Rank

    These Pokemon are exceptional at their roles, performing significant roles in the RBY Mewbers tier, and are found on many serious teams.

    A
    [​IMG]Chansey – Special wall, status spreader, screen abuser – checks Slowbro and Reflect versions can get in a stall war with Snorlax or Mew.

    [​IMG]Gengar – Fast sleeper, normal resist, weak boomer – checks Slowbro, counters mono-normal attacking Mew / Snorlax.
    [​IMG] Jynx – Lead, sleeper, ice resist, psychic resist and sleep absorber.
    [​IMG]Slowbro – Slow boosting special tank, physical wall and paralysis spreader – Mew check, especially if it runs Withdraw or Reflect


    B Rank

    These Pokémon have effective roles in the RBY Mewbers tier and are common less used alternatives to S Rank and A Rank Pokémon in serious teams.

    B
    [​IMG]
    Alakazam - Paralysis spreader, special drops can force switches, Reflect lets it stay in and check a variety of threats and Seismic Toss lets it break through boosts
    [​IMG] Golem - normal resist and boom; has a hard time if Snorlax or Mew carry Earthquake, an easier time if they don't, and can punch holes with Explosion in a pinch

    [​IMG] Starmie – Fast twaver, screen abuser, Slowbro answer, potential freezer.



     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2016
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  2. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    Mewbers Viability open for business!

    I started with the Ubers viability and made a few tweaks.

    1) Mew's physical attacking sets are much more viable than the Transform set. Swords Dance is virtually a requirement.

    2) Because of this, physical defense is important! Snorlax, Slowbro, Chansey can all make use of Reflect/Withdraw, and should if you plan to play them against Mew

    3) Pokemon who can take advantage of high specials can still do so to break through Mew and other physical threats; Amnesia Slowbro, Amnesia Snorlax can be used to great effect

    4) Mono-normal attackers are common: mono-Snorlax (Amnesia/Reflect/Body Slam/Rest) or mono-Mew (Swords Dance/Reflect/Softboiled/Body Slam) are seen in this tier, which gives Gengar an important opening and bumps him up to A rank

    5) Alakazam is added to the list after being absent from the Ubers rankings, as its speed and special power, as well as defensive utility with Reflect and neutral attack in Seismic Toss can help you break through tricky (Gengar) or tough (Snorlax, Mew) foes.

    A few big questions I have:

    1) Where does Starmie go? I dropped it to B from its place in A in Ubers, but that was just based on my gut. Anyone have insight?

    2) S and A were largely unchanged from Ubers rankings, but I think there may be some shuffling between the two in order.

    3) How important is booming in this tier? Eggy, Snorlax, Gengar and Mew all have it, and you could bring in a Golem too. But with all the Reflects around, is it helpful? Do Pokemon change ranks because of this?
     
  3. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    I think your rankings are overall good. Everything is pretty much based around Mew. Reflect and Counter become moves that you should seriously consider on Chansey and Lax (tbolt becomes p much useless on Chansey in this tier). Bro and Zap are very dangerous and can check/wallbreak/clean etc. I think Golem should be ranked. It can annoy non-earthquake Mew and it's a boom. It obv checks Zap too, and as you said it can take eat some explosions itself. Also yes bomming is useful because sometimes that's the only way not to get screwed by a reflect user since zam is less of a tool to break them (ppstallable and checked easily, slowbro is common). It's a brutal way of getting some key opposing pieces out of the way to bring out your now threatening mon.

    I don't know where Starmie goes, i'd be tempted to say nowhere since I don't see what role it can fulfill efficiently, it lacks too much power and using screen is just too passive in a tier as crazy as mewbers.
     
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  4. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    You know me, I'm always happy to have a Golem around. I'm inclined to agree to rank Golem and drop Starmie, BUT I want to get more feedback before making those changes.

    If we can agree on where Golem goes - is it B? Or is it good enough to be A (you're right that normal resist is helpful enough as it is)? Or is it niche enough to be C? And who would you drop in order to use him? - I'll put him up. I'm more hesitant to remove Starmie without more folks chiming in. I rarely use Starmie either way so I'm not an expert!
     
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    What about using Psychic Thunder Wave Recover Thunderbolt Starmie? If Chansey's rarely running thunderbolt, and slowbro is a big deal, surely this set would work well possible as a lead or in the back?
     
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  6. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    This Starmie wouldn't do anything more than thunder waving a Mew unfortunately, who always ends up paralysed in other ways (bslam wars, twave from chansey/bro...). I think Golemis A worthy but starting with B is fine, to see with the tour how it fares
     
  7. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    I think you'd probably want Ice instead of Psychic - Ice is surprisingly rare in the tier (Chansey is probably Reflect/Seismic Toss, Tauros isn't a given, and you're not pitting your Mewtwos in a freeze war here), so you have maybe an Amnesia Ice Beam Snorlax, or maybe a Jynx (if it didn't lose sleep to opposing Jynx or Gengar leads). If you wanted to try freezing something, Ice Beam Starmie vs Seismic Toss Chansey is actually a great bet. Just don't accidentally paralyze your freeze target!

    I think I just talked myself into wanting to keep Starmie, but I think we see how it fares in the tour as well.

    Add Golem to B for now though, and adjusted Pokemon descriptions based on conversations
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2016
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  8. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    How is Tauros only A?

    Also, Chansey is a bit in trouble at first glance: in Ubers it stops Mewtwo and Slowbro, while in this tier it doesn't do much.
    Mew has a good crit rate (so Zapdos and Tauros), Snorlax has Rest and Slowbro is even tougher; to add more Lapras is gone - I think Starmie is somehow contending that slot, even though a Starmie>Chansey team has to deal with Zapdos.

    Nobody talked about Articuno and Cloyster: I wouldn't try to stall Mew with Reflect myself, and they don't hit Slowbro, Starmie and Chansey (and Zapdos pressures them of course).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I wouldn't want to bet on Withdraw Slowbro as a Mew answer unless it's pre-paralysed. The straight 1v1 looks like this:


    Enemy MEW used SWORDS DANCE!
    Enemy MEW's ATTACK greatly rose!
    SLOWBRO used WITHDRAW!
    SLOWBRO's DEFENSE rose!

    Enemy MEW used SWORDS DANCE!
    Enemy MEW's ATTACK greatly rose!
    SLOWBRO used WITHDRAW!
    SLOWBRO's DEFENSE rose!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!
    SLOWBRO used WITHDRAW!
    SLOWBRO's DEFENSE rose!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!
    SLOWBRO used WITHDRAW!
    SLOWBRO's DEFENSE rose!

    Enemy MEW used SWORDS DANCE!
    Enemy MEW's ATTACK greatly rose!
    SLOWBRO used REST!
    SLOWBRO started sleeping!
    SLOWBRO regained health!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO is fast asleep!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO woke up!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!*
    SLOWBRO used AMNESIA!
    SLOWBRO's SPECIAL greatly rose!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!***
    SLOWBRO used REST!
    SLOWBRO started sleeping!
    SLOWBRO regained health!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO is fast asleep!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO woke up!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!*
    SLOWBRO used AMNESIA!
    SLOWBRO's SPECIAL greatly rose!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!***
    SLOWBRO used REST!
    SLOWBRO started sleeping!
    SLOWBRO regained health!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO is fast asleep!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!**
    SLOWBRO woke up!

    Enemy MEW used EARTHQUAKE!*
    SLOWBRO used SURF!

    Enemy MEW used HYPER BEAM!*
    SLOWBRO used SURF!
    Enemy MEW fainted!


    *If this crits, and the Hyper Beam connects, Slowbro is KOed.
    **If a pair of these double-crit, and the Hyper Beam connects, Slowbro is KOed. If one of a pair of these crits, Slowbro must Rest early and the match drags out for one more loop.
    ***If this crits, Slowbro has a 35% chance to be KOed.

    Discounting the potential for extra loops, that's still a 64% chance for Mew to win.

    Reflect Slowbro has a slightly easier time of it, as it outpaces Mew to the KO without Resting; it has a 57% chance of victory.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  10. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    Yeah, you would absolutely want to make sure Mew was pre-paralyzed before trying to bring in Slowbro, and especially so your Amnesia or Withdraw could slow it down even more - so if your Slowbro does lose the matchup something else is guaranteed to outspeed for an easier revenge kill.

    But also remember that Mew is very unlikely to be carrying two physical attacks (and if it does, it would be Earthquake + Body Slam for paralysis chance + normal resist coverage) - so Earthquake + Hyper Beam isn't something you're likely to have to fear. That plus the FP chance makes this match up better for Slowbro.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2016
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  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Why wouldn't you run Hyper Beam? Almost anything you want to paralyse with Body Slam or Thunder Wave, you can kill outright with +4 Hyper Beam.
     
  12. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    If you don't run Reflect/Explosion on Mew, you just lose to other Mew. Paralysis is essential to outspeed the speed tie / outspeed Mewtwo. If you add this up with the fact Hyper Beam can make you waste an extra turn if you crit, Hyper Beam isn't really that good. It's like C/D rank move viability in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  13. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    ???
     
  14. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Well I thought you were assuming HB is good in Ubers too, and not questioning the classic set. I guess it's probably a bit better in mewbers.
     
  15. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    Yeah, Hyper Beam just isn't worth the space in the moveset. If both Mews have Reflect up, it doesn't matter how high your attack is or whether or not you crit, you're not breaking through. You'll end up trading attacks, using Softboiled, and recharging until your PP is gone - which, with Hyper Beam, happens fast, and even if you get lucky and your opponent FPs after your first Hyper Beam, you can't capitalize on it because you're recharging, so you just have to hope you win the next speed tie. And of course, Hyper Beam is essentially just as bad against a Reflect Snorlax (but at least Snorlax doesn't have instant recovery - you'll have to recharge, but at least you'll force Rest cycles ... but if your Mew is paralyzed, Snorlax will stall out your PP easy).

    The "good" Mew sets are Transform (best used in Ubers, though ... not great in Mewbers) and Swords Dance/Reflect/Softboiled/Body Slam. There's room to play with that second set, but if you're not using Swords Dance you're wasting your Mew. If you're not using Reflect, you're asking for trouble. Softboiled is often a no-brainer. And you need to attack somehow. There's just not room for Hyper Beam.
     
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  16. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    If you want to run Earthquake on Mew (hitting Gengar, Golem, Rhydon I guess) where do you fit it?

    Also could some sort of mixed set work? What about Psychic / Reflect or Swords Dance / Body Slam / Softboiled
     
  17. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    I've run Earthquake over Body Slam on the Swords Dance/Reflect set, but lack of paralysis potential and lower PP hurt a bit. I think Reflect is probably easier to drop than Swords Dance, because if you can get the other Mew out of the way (or are in a position where you have a chance to set up your SD before they can bring their Mew in to try to bring up its own Reflect) and have other ways to handle physical attackers like Snorlax/Tauros, you don't need the extra protection, but the extra attack is what gives you the opportunity to sweep.

    If you run a Boom set, you can drop Reflect and/or Softboiled, depending on how you want to play.

    Bringing in notes from the PP chat:

    Lutra categorizes Body Slam, Earthquake, Explosion, Hyper Beam, Ice Beam, Reflect, Softboiled, Swords Dance, Transform, Thunder Wave as Mew's viable move options. Psychic didn't make his cut, but I haven't done calcs on it and I don't have experience on it to speak yet. I'd be interested to see if it gets play in the Mewbers tour; the spc fall might be nicer than we think. Anyone else want to weigh in on that one?
     
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  18. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Host Emeritus

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    The A and S ranks as listed are mostly unchanged from a copy-paste from the Ubers Viability Rankings - they are definitely open to shuffling. You proposed a few good points, and I want to see what others think. Anyone else have any thoughts on ...

    1) Moving Tauros to S?
    2) Dropping Chansey to A?
    3) Starmie's placement?
    4) Cloyster?
    5) Articuno?
     
  19. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I'm torn between B and C for Star. Chansey restricts its midgame presence like always, but the presence of Mew prevents it from doing its thing lategame. That leaves leading as a defined area where it's capable, otherwise all it does is counter Bro and bait Chansey switches, which is nice, but far from inspiring. Maybe I'd lean B, idk.

    I support Chans->A

    I think that based on these viability rankings, Blizzard users as a whole are undeservedly overlooked. Lapras also deserves placement imo, more so than Cuno does, as it has better physical bulk and a host of tricks up its sleeves (can go standard 1u set or Rest+Reflect). I think B rank is fine, I used it in my match vs Lutra and I definitely think with the right support it can be threatening.

    Again, it seems Blizzard users are overlooked, and in that context there's little reason to use Jolt instead of Zap... the best reason imo is to counter opposing Zap. I think C works for it
     
  20. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    Tauros should go up to S, it's still very strong in this format particularly as a wallbreaker. Zapdos in S is fine too, it happened to be quite strong in my games. I also support A Chansey. I played Zam it was alright, B is fine, Golem is alright too (maybe A one day?) but it struggles too much against Reflect Mew.
     

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