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RBY Ubers / 1P Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Enigami, Feb 18, 2015.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Welcome to the RBY 1P Viability Ranking Thread! This is for Standard RBY. There is no wrap clause. In case you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in certain ranks here, based on their impact on the tier as well as their general viability in the tier. How This is an excellent help while teambuilding and it serves as a general outline of the tier.

    If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it - that's what this thread is for. As long as you are reasonably sensible and courteous this thread should run smoothly.

    Pokémon are sorted into the respective categories based on how well they perform their roles. Within each ranking Pokemon are listed alphabetically to avoid overcomplication.

    Here is the list of PP's tiers.

    S Rank

    These are the top Pokemon of the tier, that you should put on nearly every serious team that you create. These Pokemon excel at their roles in the tier to such a point that they are dominating forces.

    [​IMG] Mew
    [​IMG] Mewtwo - Analysis

    A Rank

    These Pokemon perform significant roles in the metagame, and perform them very well, however they are not the most dominating forces.

    A+

    [​IMG] Slowbro
    [​IMG] Snorlax - Analysis

    A-

    [​IMG] Chansey - Analysis
    [​IMG] Zapdos

    B Rank

    These Pokemon are strong choices in the metagame, but perform less important roles or are less consistent than Pokémon in the Rank above. They have larger flaws than Pokémon in above ranks, or face greater competition from similar Pokemon, reducing their usefulness.

    B+

    [​IMG] Exeggutor
    [​IMG] Tauros

    B-

    [​IMG] Gengar
    [​IMG] Jynx - Analysis

    C Rank

    These Pokemon are more infrequent sights in the metagame, particularly in top level matches, but are nevertheless viable Pokemon. They are less effective in the metagame than Pokémon in above ranks, but are effective with proper support.

    [​IMG] Golem - Analysis
    [​IMG] Starmie
    [​IMG] Victreebel


    D Rank

    These Pokemon are very rare sights in top level matches, and suffer from more crippling flaws. They require a lot of support to be effective, and may have consistency issues.

    [​IMG] Ditto - Analysis
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2016
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  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Lutra thoughts on updates to this?

    The list on Smogon differs.
     
  3. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Good call. imo we should drop Chansey/Bro to A, bump Jynx to A and maybe bump Tauros to B?

    Actually now I'm not sure on Jynx either. I've found it really easy to slot onto teams because of LK, but when I think about it pretty much all it has over Egg is the potential to freeze, which realistically isn't going to land on an Uber. That said, I still think it's better than all of B, just maybe not on par with A

    idk a lot of this stuff I simply have no experience with or I've used them like once or something. Should maybe have a few battles in a friendly setting to test this stuff

    On that note probably no need to rank Don and Persian. Gol>Don and Golem isn't even very good to begin with, while I just don't see much reason to use Persian when Tauros exists. It's not as though you're running them alongside each other and I just prefer Tauros' potential for hax, especially since as an early game wallbreaker you're going to be throwing out HBeam's like they're nothing. Come to think of it the description lists Tauros as a revenge-killer and sweeper, which is completely different to how I've played it oh well.
     
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  4. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Chansey and Slowbro are so dispensable imo.
    Zapdos to A imo: Thunder Wave is important, hits decently with Drill Peck and has good or at least okaish matchups against a large part of the field.
     
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  5. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    I copied the Smogon OP. Let's explore this more after the Smogon tournament.

    But I think Rhydon is not too bad against the pokes not named Mew and Mewtwo, especially in a tier where para is everywhere. I also treat it with caution with my own Mew because body slam could paralyse it, helping out their own Mew.

    Also, I wouldn't say Persian is not worth mentioning. Even if it's frail, we're talking about something that can get a likely 3HKO on Mewtwo. So like with Rhydon, I don't think it's too bad with the plentiful paralysis options - it's just unreliable like in OU I think.

    I'm not getting the more offensive uber style without chansey and slowbro. Perhaps you can show me in the semi-finals, finals :)
     
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  6. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Lax as 3rd best (it's very tough to take out and Body Slam+ Selfdestruct is the best physical offense besides from Mew), Zapdos as 4th imo: it shines in this metagame. Exeggutor (6) is reliable for what it does, but it's not a threat, while Slowbro (5) can cause troubles once Mewtwo and Zapdos are out of the way. Chansey (7) has not a lot to do other than TWave. Gengar (9) is a decent lead and walls some movesets.
    I don't know where to rank Jolteon, but it looks the best anti-lead (so same rank as Gar/Jynx(8) maybe).
    Golem has Explosion and walls Zapdos; Articuno, Rhydon and Persian should be low ranked (D-E).
    Tauros looks kinda competing with Golem for 11th place, and Starmie is very disappointing.
     
  7. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    bump like nobody's watching

    my version of the rankings

    S+
    Mewtwo
    S
    Mew

    A
    Chansey
    Slowbro
    Snorlax
    Exeggutor

    B
    Jynx
    Starmie
    Tauros
    Gengar

    Frankly, there are a lot of pokemon I just don't know about. In the tours I've played in I've been more inclined to focus on winning rather than try new things, maybe I'll change my approach in order to get these rankings together. A few thoughts though.

    I've never really been interested in the electrics in this meta, there's just been little compelling reason as I've seen it. I suppose it's something I'll have to try though, as in ubers they could be played a lot more aggressively because you're not so much preserving it for a sweep... unless you do preserve it to clean up in the aftermath of a M2 stall war. They're big threats, but struggle to get any distinctly good matchups but still pose a vague general threat. Idk

    Thoughts on the lead meta? One pokemon that regularly gets omitted from ubers discussion is Zam, but I wonder how viable it might be, given that ubers generally don't enter play until later in the game. This should theoretically allow Zam to fit a lead niche, though obviously its mid/lategame roles are compromised by the ubers.

    Really, most of 1u needs testing, as you could make a reasonable argument for most pokemon to be considered viable. The ubers are generally preserved for lategame, leaving a significant portion of the game for the 1u regulars to play, and most of them are threatening enough that it's not an invitation for the opp to boost with reckless abandon.
     
  8. CrapAtRBY

    CrapAtRBY Member

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    I would be wary of using any paralysis lead in Ubers purely because of potentially paralysing Mewtwo
     
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  9. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Updated with the latest rankings.

    I'd personally swap Gengar with Starmie. Gengar can wall non-eq/gimmicky Mew and Lax sets, sleep and boom on sleepers. What does Starmie really do that it's not outclassed in?
     
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  10. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    I must say i'm not convinced by Starmie (and zam but it's not ranked anyway) since it can't do anything to Mewtwo. It doesn't wall it either: +6 Mewtwo Psychic vs. Starmie: 163-192 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. I don't think I ever faced one and I would not play it so basically on paper I would unrank it or maybe just drop it. Gengar is cool in this tier even though a lot of psychics are around. There's usually a lot of boomers in order to threaten Mewtwo and Gengar can absorb them (or at least threaten to do so) + absorb sleep and still be efficient. Some Mews don't pack earthquake too. I'd put it higher, I agree with Lutra on swapping it with Starmie even if I think the future will tell us to just not play Starmie in 1P. I agree with the rest for the time being, Zapdos in Ubers is very good.
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
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  11. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    yeah, what do players think Zapdos should be? Just marcoasd said it's top 4 and obviously it's great for spreading para and hurting the top OU pieces, so I put it in S for now.
     
  12. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I honestly don't see Zap as being on par with Lax/Chans/Bro, I think A is fine. As for Star, I guess it can be swapped with Gengar for reasons covered by everyone else. I'm not sure what to do with B rank, as after the A rank there's a really steep drop-off in viability I think. On that note, where does Jolt rank?

    That said, Starmie is actually not that bad a M2 check if it has Light Screen (and M2 lacks Tbolt obv). It still loses, but it'll burn through a hell of a lot of Psychic PP in the process. Of course then there's an element of 4MSS. The biggest issue is that it's simply outclassed by Bro.
     
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  13. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Well, I have my own vision of the tier as I don't like committing to freeze wars (nor spending much time PPstalling and stuff). Chansey is the pokemon I drop the most. (Tauros, Exeggutor, Mew, Mewtwo, Mew, Snorlax, Zapdos/Slowbro)
    I feel I am not in trouble against standard teams: I try to sleep and paralyze stuff, then use a mix of physical attackers and explosions. I deal with Slowbro pretty well, and so I do with Mewtwo: the bad part for this team is having to switch into Chansey's Ice Beam before I can paralyze it.
    I actually like Mew more than Mewtwo: Mewtwos stall each others (and won't crush Chansey- maybe I should try Psychic), while SDancing Mew beats paralyzed Mewtwo (and it doesn't get paralyzed, so it can boom later). Mew is THE stallbreaker, boosting its attack.
    Mewtwo learns physical moves and Selfdestruct, too... that's an unexplored part.
    Zapdos is obviously the best piece for the offensive strategy: it can both paralyze and pressure stuff (Chansey, Exeggutor, Slowbro, and Snorlax to some extent); rocks are rare and so is Jolteon.
    It won't beat Mews, but it enables Snorlax and Mew to do so.

    The other way, stall and freeze, if you get frozen (let's say, you love getting Chansey frozen so Mewtwo won't be) you are likely to win against another stall team, but you are in a bad position against an offensive team: Mewtwo is going to get paralyzed and eventually taken out (basically, left with 3 pokemon out of Snorlax, Mew, Slowbro and Exeggutor).
    Exeggutor doesn't touch Mewtwo (well, I use Stun Spore but most of you don't want to: I think dropping Exeggutor could be an idea, and all you need is some other way to get the sleep off - Sing Chansey I guess).
    Slowbro is very solid, but it lets TBolt Mewtwo in (so it's similar to Zapdos) and Exeggutor as well (I assume you guys are using Ice Beam>Thunder Wave, aren't you?).
    All in all, I'm not surprised a lot of people complain about luck when using this style (and getting caught in a mirror match).


    Everything you use as a lead is going to be your worst pokemon (one dimensional): sleepers are Gengar (does better than it does in OU) and Jynx, Tauros is a good anti-lead imo (and ofc it can sweep at times), while Starmie and Alakazam don't accomplish much- at least, Starmie is bulker than Alakazam.

    TL;DR: Mewtwo and Mew are the best at what they do, and Snorlax somehow is a diverse Mew (STAB and nasty Body Slams with no setup). That's the real S line (Mewtwo is S+ because there are times where it can't be stopped but don't call them OP, they're just too much mythologized), then we have a gap no matter what you bring, and everything coming next has flaws: the fact that Chansey's flaw (no pressure) makes it subpar for my strategy doesn't mean it's not worth of its status.
    I think Zapdos is on par with Chansey, Slowbro and Exeggutor (it isn't with Lax, but it's due to Lax being #3).
    Exeggutor has the weakest credentials to join the A club.
    Everything else is below that line, I still stand by the rankings I made one year ago.
    Rocks are decent, they could join the ranks.
     
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  14. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Moved Gengar to A-, Starmie to B for now. Still wondering if Zapdos is actually S or A+.
     
  15. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    proposing chansey drop to A rank and tagging SunnyR cos we talked about it a bit so he can explain why
     
  16. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    Yeah I reckon, Chansey could definitely fall. See the thing is Light Screen is the main set, and the main thing that you're aiming to beat with it, is Mewtwo. When is Mewtwo ever staying in unless its para'd or unless its boom? And if it is boom, its definitely gonna want to use that on opposing mewtwo, as opposed to Chansey. Secondly its exploited by Snorlax really hard, and is setup bait for Amnesia Bro which v easily pp wastes Mewtwo afaik, as well as SD Mew. Chansey to A+ or something for sure. I think i can back myself up by just saying that in the RBY Ubers tour currently going on, Chansey use has severely fallen, the main reason is that it simply lets too many things get going, without being threatening enough, and its defensive utility isn't quite as good as it is in RBY 1U, and most of the chansey usage here i feel is a bit of a hangover from RBY 1U.
     
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  17. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    The idea behind why I use Chansey is to try to get it frozen, protecting Mewtwo from freeze. It worked against an awful lot of players. I went undefeated in like 15+ consecutive games last year with my ChanBro team. I don't yet see a reason to drop it from S, since an awful lots of players will allow standard PsychicBeam Mewtwo to just dominate them. I get why you might think it's not so good though, since it can be counterstyled, but not from your average ubers player.
     
  18. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Still, does that make it S-worthy? I feel like S-worthy stuff should be stuff you have on like 80%+ of teams and Chansey doesn't sound like that either (not sure on Bro or Zap either but what do I know)
     
  19. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Well I've still only used 1 team, so it's hard for me to judge. Just in my eyes, I'm not going to dismiss something to A rank when ChanBro is the core of my strategy and is part of the classic ubers team.
     
  20. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    ah i never really thought of it that way, in that case yes, i've been using it wrong. i still think A+ might be better for it, but i haven't played enough i suppose :v. I also wanna say that I don't think Starmie is all that good, put it at the bottom of A- and get rid of the B rank with only one mon i think
     

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