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ADV OU Umbreon + Forretress Stall

Discussion in 'Rate My Team' started by Disaster Area, Jun 11, 2017.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    This is my first ADV 1U RMT... I'm not super invested in the tier because I dislike the trapping mechanics greatly and the impact of it on the metagame, but I do enjoy messing around in it from time to time and I seem to have the knack for it. That being said, most of the time I prefer to bring teams with some degree of novelty - I like exploring new concepts, and ADV 1U is apt for that, and once you have the basics down there's a lot you can do in the metagame, fleshing out your own style.

    This team is a hard stall team designed around gaining the spikes advantage with forretress and umbreon, with gengar providing a spinblocker and cleaner which loves spikes support, and dugtrio trapping key Pokemon, in particular Magneton. The remainder of the team is dedicated to making sure that it doesn't lose - the team is much better at not losing than it is at winning. A lot of players don't like this style of team and to be sure it doesn't suit most of them, but I have had decent results with it on the ladder and in tournament games. It suits stall-minded players, but it requires a challenging mix of conservative and aggressive play; getting the hazard advantage versus the opposing team is crucial in most matchups.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Surf
    - Icy Wind
    - Roar
    - Rest

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 48 SpA / 24 SpD / 176 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Destiny Bond
    - Hypnosis

    Dugtrio @ Choice Band
    Ability: Arena Trap
    EVs: 8 HP / 204 Atk / 60 SpD / 236 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Aerial Ace
    - Hidden Power [Bug]

    Umbreon @ Leftovers
    Ability: Synchronize
    EVs: 252 HP / 220 SpA / 28 SpD / 8 Spe
    Calm Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Pursuit
    - Toxic

    Forretress @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Careful Nature
    - Spikes
    - Rapid Spin
    - Hidden Power [Ghost]
    - Explosion

    Steelix @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sturdy
    EVs: 252 HP / 236 Atk / 20 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Roar
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide
    - Explosion

    Now let's look at the individual Pokemon, and discuss their strengths, weaknesses, and interactions with their teammates.

    [​IMG]
    Surf | Icy Wind | Roar | Rest

    Suicune's really good at not dieing. Ttar, Aero, Mence, Metagross - all of these Pokemon are kept at bay by Cune, although each also has secondary checks. The great thing about that is it means you don't have to rely solely on Suicune as a crutch against these threats. In addition, Wish support from Umbreon can help keep suicune healthy, and should be relied on more than Rest to keep it safe. The fact that tyranitar cannot easily 2hko it from full, even at +1 from dragon dance, means that in spite of it not being a rock resist it is still difficult to break past even with rock slide flinches, although creative use of its teammates definitely helps a lot too. The main purpose of Icy Wind is to beat opposing CMroar suicune, which the team can often struggle to deal with otherwise, especially if Umbreon is down to a destiny bond from an opposing Gengar. After an Icy Wind the subsequent Roar outspeeds on the next attempt, and since opposing suicune cannot do much damage to it anyway if they're running a roar set, it lets it handle it comfortably. The other major reason for Icy Wind is Gyarados - Gyarados is a difficult Pokemon to handle on this team, but keeping its speed as low as possible does much to minimise its impact. Gengar is a usable check to it, and Steelix can do something in return to it at least, and forretress can boom on it if absolutely necessary, but it is a scary Pokemon for the team. Icy Wind 2HKOs Salamence comfortably enough, so the damage reduction in Ice Beam is a manageable trade-off. The speed drop can also help Steelix / Forretress explode safely and can help Dugtrio and Gengar revenge-kill.

    [​IMG]
    Thunderbolt | Ice Punch | Destiny Bond | Hypnosis

    There's less surprises with this Gengar, it just does what Gengar does best - clean up, check a few threats, sleep stuff for momentum and duggy, destiny bond if something goes a tits-up, and all that jazz. I'm willing to change the spread on it to beat gyara better though, if anyone has any suggestions (my spread is 140 HP / 116 SpA / 252 Spe with Timid). See Post #2.

    It's the best go-to on the team when Skarmory shows its face. You don't want to go forretress too early, before you've been able to figure out if there's a magneton, and you want to limit its ability to lay a lot of hazards early on, making gar a great early switch. Hypnosis is a pretty safe but aggressive and threatening move early on, and it can help make short work of Blissey, which can be tough to handle otherwise, in tandem with Dugtrio.

    [​IMG]
    Earthquake | Rock Slide | Aerial Ace | Hidden Power [Bug]

    It's Adamant duggy, since I have Lix for the rare Raikou, and Umbreon helps with starmie, but jolly is an option as outspeeding starmie definitely would do some good in that matchup, but the extra power is definitely welcomed. Duggy should be played pretty aggressively: you DO not want Forry to be trapped by Magneton. It also is an important part of beating heracross, alongside Gengar. Besides that, if it can effectively trap Pursuit Tar, Blissey, Celebi, Jirachi, Metagross... all of that is pretty helpful in the long run I guess. It definitely opens up a lot of options in a lot of matchups. In fact, really it is one of the biggest tools against Blissey, and that's where the bulk helps the most.

    [​IMG]
    Wish | Protect | Pursuit | Toxic

    Now, Umbreon is pretty neat... it gives its teammates more staying power with Wish, in particular helping Suicune against heavy physical onslaughts from stuff like CBTar, and helping Steelix against Snorlax. It can trap Gengar (letting Forretress Spin safely and removing a dangerous cleaner), Starmie (stopping a spinner and dangerous cleaner) and Claydol (a bulky spinner), and provides a check to most Pokemon which aren't exceptionally powerful on either side, like Swampert, Zapdos, and bulky Flygon, with Synchronise making their toxics an even trade. Also, versus bulky calm mind users without substitute (which is most suicune), Umbreon is a great check in tandem with the team's own Suicune, particularly meaning that offensive 3 attacks suicune usually can't put in much work.

    [​IMG]
    Spikes | Rapid Spin | Hidden Power [Ghost] | Explosion

    Forretress is a great way to compress hazard control neatly, but it does fear magneton. HP Ghost is useful because it helps pressure the Pokemon Umbreon Pursuits, as Umbreon is not strong enough to remove them - in one attack anyway. The final slot could be dedicated to Earthquake if you are petrified of Magneton, but Explosion is incredibly useful, mainly versus Snorlax and Gyarados, and it's very helpful in closing endgames.

    [​IMG]
    Roar | Earthquake | Rock Slide | Explosion

    Steelix compresses a number of things, helping me handle Raikou as well as other Electric types (in tandem with Umbreon), as well as Snorlax (alongside Gengar, Explosion Forretress, and with Umbreon's Wish support). It also bones Choice-locked Rock-types pretty hard, particularly Aerodactyl, helping reduce the pressure on Suicune to function defensively. DDTar can't flinch through it, giving you a third check to it alongside Dugtrio and Suicune.

    Conclusion

    Although the team is derided as a bit of a do-nothing team with do-nothing Pokemon, I just think doing things is a state of mind. Lol, in fairness, the team can be played in an aggressive manner, and Dugtrio in particular should be played aggressively; the goal of the team is to set up a scenario where victory is certain and lock the opponent down. Explosion on Steelix and Forretress, and Gengar, with Spikes and often the opponent's sand, are the two main ways of cleaning up the end-game, but the team undeniably does struggle a bit to close off games.

    Overall, the main thing to remember is to play Forretress conservatively, making sure to remove Magneton before risking it. Besides that, play as aggressively as possible, as otherwise Blissey can be a tricky Pokemon to beat, and for the most part you'll have to rely on Dugtrio which is far from ideal, although depending on the set there's usually some way of abusing it, you just may need to get creative.

    I'm not looking for bigger structural changes to the team, but if someone has suggestions to tweak things a little (like Steelix's or Gengar's spreads for example) I'll pay attention.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2017
    prozac, Kerts, Hassin627 and 3 others like this.
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Updated Gengar EVs:
    EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 48 SpA / 24 SpD / 176 Spe
    Timid Nature

    +1 252+ Atk Gyarados Hidden Power Flying vs. 252 HP / 8 Def Gengar: 273-322 (84.2 - 99.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 SpA Torrent Swampert Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Gengar: 271-319 (83.6 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ SpA Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 24 SpD Gengar: 287-338 (88.5 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (a little less than 1 in 3 chance to live in sand)
    Outspeeds modest Raikou / Starmie
     

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