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GSC OU (OverUsed) Snorlax [GP Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Ortheore, Nov 17, 2016.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Snorlax [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Type: Normal
    Stats: 160 | 110 | 65 | 65 | 110 | 30


    Introduction

    No Pokemon represents a generation in the same way Snorlax does for GSC. Its dominance is unrivalled across standard tiers, as its titanic offensive and defensive presence allow it to warp the flow of matches to an unrivalled extent. Offensively it is capable of enormous diversity, with its iconic Curse set alone having numerous variations, and if that weren’t enough it can just as easily use Belly Drum and all-out attacking sets to smash opposing walls to pieces. Defensively it has few weaknesses, as it’s difficult to hit super effectively and it possesses enormous special bulk and decent physical bulk, enabling it to serve as a potent check to almost every special and mixed attacker in the tier. It is so unfathomably potent that it should be on every serious GSC team, and should expect to face it in every battle.

    Sets

    CurseLax

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Rest
    - Body Slam / Double-Edge / Return
    - Earthquake / Fire Blast / Sleep Talk / Lovely Kiss

    Set Details

    Curse is the most popular Snorlax set as it maximises Snorlax’s defensive utility while providing a consistent offensive threat. Curse boosts Snorlax’s attack while also bolstering its lesser defensive stat and making it much more difficult to take down. Rest keeps Snorlax healthy, allowing it to make good use of its considerable bulk. Body Slam is a popular STAB option due to its ability to spread paralysis, while Double Edge provides significantly more power but inflicts recoil damage. Return is a third option for if you want greater power than Body Slam, but dislike the recoil inflicted by Double-Edge.

    In the last slot, Earthquake provides additional coverage, hitting most of the Rock, Steel and Ghost types that otherwise wall Snorlax’s STAB. Fire Blast is another option that hits opposing Steels harder than Earthquake, most notably Skarmory, which otherwise resists all Snorlax’s common coverage moves, however it allows Rock and Ghost types to serve as much more effective checks. Sleep Talk ensures that Snorlax consistently poses a threat where it would otherwise offer some reprieve when it Rests off damage. Lovely Kiss allows Snorlax to incapacitate an opponent’s primary check, forcing them to use their less effective secondary responses. Note however that running Sleep Talk or Lovely Kiss means sacrificing coverage, allowing Normal resists to have a much easier time walling Snorlax.

    DrumLax

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    - Belly Drum
    - Rest
    - Body Slam / Return
    - Earthquake / Lovely Kiss

    Set Details

    This set sacrifices some of Snorlax’s defensive utility in order to become one of the most terrifying wallbreakers in GSC. Belly Drum maxes out Snorlax’s attack at the cost of 50% HP, or gives it +2 if its HP is already below 50%. Rest provides valuable recovery. Body Slam is the most notable STAB move for its ability to spread paralysis, although Return is also viable and provides more power. Double-Edge is not a great choice here due to the recoil damage being problematic when combined with Belly Drum’s HP reducing effect. In the last slot, you have the choice of Earthquake, which provides excellent coverage, or Lovely Kiss, which incapacitates an opponent’s best check and can provide an opening for you to set up a Belly Drum.

    All Out Attacker

    Snorlax (M) @ Leftovers
    - Body Slam / Double-Edge / Return
    - Earthquake
    - Fire Blast / Curse / Lovely Kiss
    - Self-Destruct

    Set Details

    Rather than spending time boosting, this set aims to break walls by maximising its coverage. Body Slam, Double-Edge and Return are again the STAB attacks of choice, with their merits being the same as described in the Curse set. Earthquake maximises Snorlax’s coverage and hits all its would-be checks bar Skarmory. Fire Blast is a great option to hit the aforementioned steel bird, Curse provides additional power, punishing opponents who play passively and boosting the power of Self-Destruct to unthinkable levels (deals a minimum of 81% to unboosted Skarmory for instance), while Lovely Kiss is useful for immediately incapacitating a check. Self-Destruct provides enormous wallbreaking potential at the cost of your Snorlax.

    Other Options

    Snorlax has an abundance of other options available to it. Firstly, moves used on the existing sets can be combined in different ways, such as running Belly Drum and Self-Destruct together for incredible wallbreaking power, or running Curse and Belly Drum together as a means of shoring up Snorlax’s defense and bluffing a less potent Curse set. Protect is an intriguing option on Belly Drum sets, securing additional Leftovers recovery and more importantly scouting for Explosion, a common response to DrumLax. Snorlax also learns Counter, which can be used to surprise attackers that hope to target its weaker physical defense. Thunder can be used to nail Skarmory, spread paralysis and surprise opposing Cloyster, but the former two traits can be achieved with Fire Blast and Body Slam respectively. A set of Toxic/Double-Edge/Flamethrower/Rest can also be effective, as many Snorlax checks lack Rest, while Flamethrower is effective against most of the checks that are immune to Toxic. Snorlax’s attacking movepool is vast, but physical moves generally offer inferior coverage to Earthquake and often have severe flaws, while special moves are generally ineffective due to Snorlax’s poor Special Attack unless they hit a very specific target.

    Checks and Counters

    If you’re looking for a counter to Snorlax, you might as well give up now. Its offensive options are too diverse for it to be possible to easily counter it (it's literally impossible without using multiple checks), but for every set there are a number of effective responses, with some of them countering individual Snorlax variants. Scouting Snorlax is key to determining what checks are effective. A fresh Snorlax is a nightmare to handle, but with a bit of chip damage it is limited in what it can accomplish before it looks to Rest, and when it’s asleep it’s much easier to handle. Often you will be looking to neutralise Snorlax rather than outright KO it, such as via phazing or through moves such as Growl and Charm.

    Normal resisting Pokemon generally make good Snorlax checks, especially if they have a move such as Roar. Skarmory is possibly the most well-known check, as it fears little from opposing Snorlax unless Snorlax has Fire Blast, and can phaze it out. Note that the dependency on phazing to check Snorlax means that if it’s facing a last-pokemon CurseLax, it will lose unless it runs Curse itself. Steelix is a popular check on offensive teams, being able to Roar CurseLax out and explode on Snorlax otherwise. It has the defense to tank an Earthquake or two, but cannot hold out for too long, while it runs a risk of being 2HKO’d by Fire Blast. Rock types such as Tyranitar, Rhydon and Golem are great Snorlax checks but are weak to the common Earthquake- although their hefty Defense stats allow them to tank the odd Earthquake, it’s far from ideal. All the aforementioned Rock types have access to Roar, and can also deal respectable damage to Snorlax if the situation calls for it. Ghost types are also prominent checks to mono-attacking and Fire Blast variants, as they’re immune to Normal attacks and Fire Blast’s limited PP mean that breaking through the Ghosts via Fire Blast can be difficult, while Gengar has access to Explosion (and rarely runs Perish Song), while Misdreavus threatens to PerishTrap. Unfortunately, their flimsy physical defences (and Poison typing in Gengar’s case) mean they will quickly fold to Earthquake. Aerodactyl deserves a mention for resisting all of Snorlax’s most common attacks, but it’s generally a poor option in GSC. Lastly, Haze Omastar resists all of Snorlax's usual options bar Earthquake and can clear Snorlax's boosts before taking a hit, but like Aerodactyl it's generally a weak choice in GSC.

    Curse variants can also be kept in check with Miltank and Umbreon, as they use Growl and Charm respectively to neutralise Snorlax’s boosts and potentially deplete Lax’s Curse PP. Although they’re effective against Curse sets, they live in fear of Belly Drum variants, which pack too much power for them to handle. Belly Drum variants can be difficult to wall, but can be checked offensive means, such as via Explosion users or strong physical attackers. Machamp is one of the top offensive checks to Snorlax thanks to its STAB Cross Chop, but lacks the bulk to take repeated hits. Defensive Dragonite can be used to check any variant of Snorlax with Haze, but its lack of Normal resistance limits its longevity and it is crippled by paralysis
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2016
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Disagree with the start of the C&C section; you can counter lax, but it requires scouting it in-battle and having 2-3 pokemon to cover it
     
  3. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Not terribly important, but Thunder also screws over Aerodactyl (love using Aero, don't care that it's D ranked), so nailing Cloyster isn't quite the only thing it does that isn't done by another move.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    (if you use Thunder we call that ThorLax!) :D
     
  5. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I'm not disputing this, but scouting in battle isn't done when teambuilding, and having multiple pokemon to handle Lax isn't really "a counter".
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Then instead say there's no single pokemon that handles every set, and that to handle it you have to do x y and z
     
  7. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    If you're not going to cover Ubers, the tag should probably be "GSC OU".

    Double-Edge does have some draws. In particular, it usually OHKOs Suicune and Umbreon and always OHKOs Miltank after a Belly Drum, while Return can't OHKO Suicune or Umbreon and has only a 41% chance to OHKO Miltank.

    As has been mentioned, Aerodactyl resists all Snorlax's other common moves. And, of course, it can simply be useful to get multiple benefits in one move; Thunder allows you to spread paralysis without giving up Double-Edge's power, for instance.
    Surf isn't too bad alongside Thunder on the mixed set, but it's not all that good.

    ToxicLax isn't mentioned anywhere. ToxicLax is Double-Edge/Toxic/Flamethrower (or Fire Blast)/Rest. Gengar can block it for a while, but Flamethrower will tell eventually. A lot of teams don't have much else that can actually deal with it; any non-Resting Rock or Missy will fall to Toxic, Steels to Flamethrower, and most other things to Snorlax's fatness and Double-Edge.
    Haze Omastar is also notable. It's a solid answer to Fire or Sleep Talk CurseLax, and it gets bonus points for being able to remove Belly Drum before taking a hit from +6 Snorlax (making it at least a check to all variants of DrumLax).

    There's no real counter to CurseLax. There are answers, but they generally only neutralise it via phazing or malus moves rather than actually forcing it out with a threat of KO.

    (Well, AA Vap is a true counter to Lax if it's not running LK, Belly Drum or Curse+Sleep Talk. But it's worn down very quickly if it tries to do it repeatedly.)
     
    juoean and Disaster Area like this.
  8. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    I don't doubt that DEdge has some draws, but it's overall not really worth it. In the examples you mention which are supposedly positive scenarios for the use of DEdge you're practically saccing Lax thanks to BD+recoil.

    I don't see a need to mention Aero with Thunder. I mean sure, that's something nice it can do, but it's never going to be a factor in picking Thunder because Aero's shit and not something you necessarily have to account for. I can reword it so that it makes some reference to the fact that you'd otherwise need multiple moves to replicate that functionality.

    I'll add ToxicLax

    Yeah I guess Haze Oma can get a mention
     
    Disaster Area likes this.
  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    This is now fixed :)
     
  10. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Well, sort of. I really don't think it ought to be called 1U yet, because we haven't at all finalised it. But whatever.
     
    Ortheore likes this.
  11. Lojh

    Lojh Above Average GSCer Member

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    One thing about lax in gsc. it is the most versatile pokemon on the planet. There are some other amazing lax sets:

    Lead Toxiclax:

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    - Toxic
    - Earthquake/Fire Blast
    - Double Edge
    - Rest

    Use double edge to threaten stuff and end the lives of things that come in on lax like ttar with toxic. Toxic pairs well with spikes, as every switch + roar you force 25% damage. Fire blast if skarm piss you off.


    CurseDrum:

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    - Curse
    - Belly Drum
    - Body Slam/Double Edge
    - Rest

    Standard cursedrum lax, use curse in a way that last move is bluffed as eq or sleep talk. Then when the Miltank switch in to growl you down drum on that tank and Murder a few pokes.



    BigBoom (trademark):

    Snorlax @ Leftovers
    - Curse/Belly Drum
    - Double Edge
    - Earthquake
    - Self-Destruct

    Wait for them to switch in skarmory and demiolish them with Self-Destruct. Pairs well with curse Hera that loves skarm removed from the field. Skarm dies to +2 boom and takes 81-ish from +1. Drum boom kills everything

    4FA8FFB3-EC02-4A39-AC17-2E7794031AB9.gif BE COMING FOR YR SOULS
     
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  12. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Also, non-Resting DrumLax (Drum/BSlam or Return/EQ/LK) isn't mentioned.
     
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