RBY 6U RBY 6A Discussion Thread

Ortheore

Emeritus
2 1 3 3 3 1 2 2
With the vote on 5U concluded, it is now time to turn our sights to 6U! Or rather, 6A, since the tier is brand new. Detailed below is a full list of our RBY tiers, with every listed pokemon being banned from 6A. As the tier is brand new, feel free to post theorymon about what will be good. As things develop, feel free to post about trends, potential suspects, really anything that you feel is interesting about the tier.

1P - Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, Species Clause, Banned Moves: Dig, Double Team, Fissure, Fly, Guillotine, Horn Drill, Minimize, Psywave
1U - Banned Pokémon: Mew, Mewtwo
2P - Banned Pokémon: Alakazam, Chansey, Cloyster, Dragonite, Exeggutor, Gengar, Golem, Jolteon, Jynx, Lapras, Slowbro, Snorlax, Starmie, Tauros, Zapdos
2U - Banned Pokémon: Articuno, Moltres
3U - Banned Pokémon: Dodrio, Gyarados, Haunter, Hypno, Kadabra, Kangaskhan, Persian, Poliwrath, Raichu, Raticate, Rhydon, Tentacruel, Victreebel
4U - Banned Pokémon: Aerodactyl, Charizard, Clefable, Dewgong, Dugtrio, Electabuzz, Exeggcute, Fearow, Golduck, Kingler, Mr. Mime, Pinsir, Poliwhirl, Sandslash, Vaporeon, Venusaur, Wigglytuff
5U - Banned Pokémon: Abra, Arcanine, Blastoise, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, Omastar, Porygon, Rapidash, Scyther, Slowpoke, Staryu, Tangela, Venomoth
6U - Banned Pokémon: Arbok, Dragonair, Drowzee, Electrode, Gastly, Graveler, Lickitung, Magmar, Ninetales, Parasect, Poliwag, Primeape, Seadra, Seaking, Vileplume, Wartortle

Note that I've excluded pokemon that have a more evolved form legal (e.g. Ivysaur is listed but not Bulbasaur)

Ivysaur, Charmeleon, Squirtle, Butterfree, Beedrill, Pidgeot, Rattata, Spearow, Ekans, Pikachu, Sandshrew, Nidorina, Nidorino, Clefairy, Vulpix, Jigglypuff, Golbat, Gloom, Paras, Venonat, Diglett, Meowth, Psyduck, Mankey, Growlithe, Machamp, Weepinbell, Tentacool, Geodude, Ponyta, Magneton, Farfetch'd, Doduo, Seel, Muk, Shellder, Onix, Krabby, Voltorb, Marowak, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Weezing, Rhyhorn, Horsea, Goldeen, Magikarp, Ditto, Flareon, Omanyte, Kabutops, Dratini

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Orth's Theorymon

Let's begin with a song. I'm thinking of a lovely little song called Trilobite by the band Mastodon. Why this song? Well for starters its title describes the most eye-catching drop from 5U- Kabutops. Right from the get-go this figures to be the tier's most dominant force, with stats that range from average to great, moves like Swords Dance and Slash and a decent typing to boot. Right off the bat I'm eyeing it as a potential suspect candidate, but whether that plays out in practice remains to be seen, as there are revenge killers available and some pokemon that can live a boosted hit and retaliate.

There's one more reason I like the aforementioned song for this tier- it's sludge metal. You know what else brings sludge to the table? Weezing and Muk of course. They're two pokemon with a lot of offensive firepower, bringing decent physical attack and the invaluable Explosion, while sporting Fire Blast and Thunderbolt to provide excellent coverage. Speed is an issue, but their bulk may prove solid in this tier and their typing isn't as bad as it is in the tiers above. Funnily enough this links into my next batch of theorymon.

Several Fighting types dropped to 5U, ones which have BSTs that you look at and think "why the hell are they tiered this low?" The most obvious is Machamp with its decent bulk, insane 130 base ATK and array of different coverage moves, a set of tools which is sure to make it a premier threat. The other notable Fighting type is Hitmonlee. Although it's about as durable as 1 ply toilet paper, its ATK stat isn't far behind that of Machamp's, while in exchange for the inferior bulk it gets the best Fighting STAB in the game as well as excellent speed, making it a top sweeper and also the best revenge killer of Kabutops.

What other powerhouses dropped? Magneton is another notable mention. It has good overall stats and a monstrously powerful Thunderbolt to menace teams with. As always, coverage is an issue, but how relevant Ground and Grass types are remains to be seen. While I'm talking about Electrics, Pikachu stands out, as it has excellent coverage options and outpaces most pokemon in the tier.

Flareon is the next biggest threat to drop, and it's in a really interesting position. On the one hand, its offensive output is ridiculous in this tier, on the other, Kabutops is a big problem for it. Fortunately, Kabutops will be reluctant to switch directly due to the threat of status from Body Slam and Fire Blast, but it still undeniably puts a huge damper on a prospective Flareon hype train. Another notable Fire type is Ponyta, which is fast and has access to Fire Spin, which is always a good combo to have up your sleeve.

Ground types are next on my list of things to discuss. Marowak is a prominent drop, with decent stats and good coverage. It looks to be decent, but unspectacular, being held back by its special frailty. Kabutops scares it as well, but it can't switch in easily and it would function as a hit and run attacker anyway. Diglett is notable for being really fast and... not much else. I'm not a fan of it, but I could be wrong. Geodude is also interesting, thanks to its Rock type and Explosion, but it possesses all of Marowak's flaws to an even greater extreme. Also Rock type is redundant with Kabutops.

Flying types will be the truest measure of Kabutops' impact, as neither Doduo nor Pidgeot can get by it. I'm sceptical of their effectiveness as there are also other pokemon there to keep them in check. Random shoutout to Golbat for being fast and capable of hitting Rock types super effectively thanks to Mega Drain. It could seriously be viable sooner rather than later, which is downright hilarious since it's so terrible.

Random other things: Don't sleep on Dratini. Prior to the rise of Arbok and Gastly in 5U, Enigami demonstrated that it's not totally insane to run Dratini in that tier, so in a lower tier you would think it would only get stronger. Butterfree will be the king of status in the tier, while also being decent offensively thanks to Psychic. Also notable, but imo outclassed, are Weepinbell and Ivysaur. Their stats are thoroughly uninspiring, but they have Sleep Powder and aren't pushovers offensively so they could definitely be an option as a second sleeper. Also we're running out of sleep users. Lastly there are a bunch of interesting Water types, mainly Shellder and Tentacool, but they have to compete with Kabutops.
 
I think Weepinbell is probably alright, it checks electrics and provides secondary sleep.

I feel like there's a really curious disparaty in the tier, everything either has high stats and terrible coverage or speed, [machamp, mageton, flareon, pidgeot] or low stats except one or two but great speed all the coverage they need [diglett, meowth, golbat, pikachu, onix]

Muk and Weezing look at first glance to be pretty good: with Gastly gone, nothing is walling it now, and ground types don't look dominant. Muk's main strength is slightly more firepower and Mega Drain, which might be useful if Onix / Geodude / Rhyhorn become things, otherwise Weezing is probably better. The typing is still dreadful and lets Pokemon like Machamp and Butterfree and so on pick on them though.

Lets have a breakdown of the list of Pokemon posted:

Grasses: Ivysaur, Weepinbell, Gloom, Paras
Fires: Charmeleon, Flareon, Ponyta, Vulpix, Growlithe
Rock/Ground: Onix, Geodude, Rhyhorn
Normal/Flying: Doduo, Spearow, Pidgeot, Farfetch'd
Wrap / Bind: Onix, Dratini, Ekans, Tentacool
Electrics: Pikachu, Voltorb, Magneton
Waters: Squirtle, Psyduck, Seel, Shellder, Krabby, Horsea, Goldeen, Omanyte, Kabutops
Sleepers: Butterfree, Ivysaur, Weepinbell, Gloom, Paras, Venonat
100% Bad: Magikarp, Ditto
Mono Normals: Rattata, Clefairy, Jigglypuff, Meowth
Poisons: Beedrill, Ekans, Tentacool, Nidorina, Nidorino, Golbat, Venonat, Gloom, Weepinbell, Ivysaur, Muk, Weezing
Mono Grounds: Sandshrew, Diglett, Marowak
Fighting Types: Mankey, Machamp, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan

Cutting down on junk:

Grasses: Weepinbell
Fires: Charmeleon, Flareon, Ponyta
Rock/Ground: Onix, Geodude, Rhyhorn
Normal/Flying: Doduo, Pidgeot
Wrap / Bind: Onix, Dratini, Ekans, Tentacool
Electrics: Pikachu, Voltorb, Magneton
Waters: Psyduck, Seel, Shellder, Krabby, Horsea, Goldeen, Omanyte, Kabutops, Tentacool
Sleepers: Butterfree, Weepinbell
Mono Normals: Clefairy, Meowth
Poisons: Beedrill, Ekans, Tentacool, Golbat, Weepinbell, Muk, Weezing
Mono Grounds: Diglett, Marowak
Fighting Types: Machamp, Hitmonlee

tfw your name is Machamp and you're in a tier where at the initial valuation, the goldfish Goldeen cannot be discounted as possibly viable. Poor Machop where's it gonna end up?

Anyway, discounting duplicates that list has 35 Pokemon on it, probably about a third to a half of which will make it into the tier, as a basic analysis

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kabutops butterfree and diglett are clearly great pokemon after a bit of testing and theorymon

also i feel like most of machamp / kabutops / flareon / magneton / weezing / muk should get into the tier through sheer force of stats honestly

... also peas and I lowkey think paras could be viable rofl
 
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I wouldn't discount Machoke, it's fairly bulky with good coverage so it might work out with Champ similar to Clef + Wiggly in 3U.

Muk is clearly > Weezing here because of Mega Drain, because I expect Onix to be good enough to use and thus cause major problems for Weezing. Weaker Explosion doesn't help either.

Early testing with Kabutops seems like it isn't as OP as expected. Teams tend to have plenty of faster Pokemon to revenge Tops or bulky enough Pokemon to threaten Tops.

Things I'd expect to be 6U:
Butterfree, Diglett, Dratini, Flareon, Golbat, Hitmonlee, Kabutops, Machamp, Magneton, Meowth, Muk, Onix, Paras, Pikachu, Ponyta, Weepinbell

Possibly good stuff:
Voltorb (fastest mon + boom), Machoke (weaker 2nd Champ), Gloom (45% chance of surviving +2 HB from Tops, bulkiest Grass), Weezing (2nd Muk with Onix/Geodude/Rhyhorn weakness), Geodude (strong boom), Marowak (high BST Ground), Omanyte (2nd Rock/Water), Clefairy (Ice/Electric/Psychic coverage, STAB Body Slam, Sing/TWave), Beedrill (Backup Setup Sweeper), Shellder (physically bulkiest Water, has Clamp+boom), Tentacool (decent speed, STAB Hydro Pump off of 100 Spc, Wrap, Swords Dance), Charmeleon (has Swords Dance, Slash and Submission over Ponyta), Edit: Maybe Horsea? 70 SpA Hydro Pumps, no Psychic/EQ weakness, and 60 Speed to stay ahead of Champ/Weepin

Trash (Edit: Maybe not?):
Pidgeot (91 base speed + STAB Hyper Beam is amazing, but good luck getting anything done before Kabutops and any additional Rocks are dead)

EDIT: Tested it, and Pidgeot might work with a SubToxic set. Tops switches into Pidgeot or uses SD and Pidgeot uses Toxic, followed by Sub spam: Tops dies, Pidgeot is at 1% HP. Alternatively, fresh Tops uses Slash/Hydro Pump, fresh Pidgeot uses Toxic, Pidgeot spams Sub and suicides with HB: Tops is around 40% (20% if HB crit) with 3 turns of Toxic buildup. So at the very least Pidgeot can severely weaken its biggest obstacle and prevent it from boosting.
 
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Ariel Rebel

#1 rsutton23 Fan
Member
I can't believe Machamp has avoided the banhammer in every other tier and as a result, his overwhelming attack stat should put him on top of things here.

With dismal speed, I would expect that a lot of teams will try to spread para to give Machamp the room he needs.

Pikachu and Butterfree look like good support options.

Muk seems as obligatory as Machamp for the sake of coverage, stats, and access to explosion.

And how can I forget Kabutops?

That leaves one spot left...

Too much for me to consider at this time of the night.
 
I can't believe Machamp has avoided the banhammer in every other tier and as a result, his overwhelming attack stat should put him on top of things here.
It's not really viable in any of the above tiers lol. It looks like it'll be viable here though :>>
 
I can't believe Machamp has avoided the banhammer in every other tier and as a result, his overwhelming attack stat should put him on top of things here.

With dismal speed, I would expect that a lot of teams will try to spread para to give Machamp the room he needs.

Pikachu and Butterfree look like good support options.

Muk seems as obligatory as Machamp for the sake of coverage, stats, and access to explosion.

And how can I forget Kabutops?

That leaves one spot left...

Too much for me to consider at this time of the night.

Machamp is very likely to belong to this tier, but I'm not even sure it's going to be the best option here: I mean, Hitmonlee is faster and speed proved to be a big factor as we moved away from OU (and hence Chansey).
Champ's chances are mainly related to Earthquake: it's better than Hitmonlee against Poison-types.

I'm kinda surprised you guys are talking about NFE in a tier with things like Kabutops, Marowak, Magneton, Muk/Weezing, Flareon, Pidgeot, Machamp/Hitmonlee. Butterfree too?
I'm curious to see what is going to happen to Meowth, Onyx, Weepinbell, Rhyhorn.
We're coming close to the end of the tiering process: I think we'll find a home for all of the fully evolved pokemon, leaving out only Hitmonchan, Beedrill, Golbat, Ditto. Well, Pidgeot is in a terrible position, sadly.
 
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Machamp is very likely to belong to this tier, but I'm not even sure it's going to be the best option here: I mean, Hitmonlee is faster and speed proved to be a big factor as we moved away from OU (and hence Chansey).
Champ's chances are mainly related to Earthquake: it's better than Hitmonlee against Poison-types.

I'm kinda surprised you guys are talking about NFE in a tier with things like Kabutops, Marowak, Magneton, Muk/Weezing, Flareon, Pidgeot, Machamp/Hitmonlee. Butterfree too?
I'm curious to see what is going to happen to Meowth, Onyx, Weepinbell, Rhyhorn.
We're coming close to the end of the tiering process: I think we'll find a home for all of the fully evolved pokemon, leaving out only Hitmonchan, Beedrill, Golbat, Ditto. Well, Pidgeot is in a terrible position, sadly.

Tbh Golbat is far from being a terrible choice in this tier. It has access to Mega Drain, outspeeds tops (beats him one on one, not sure if it switches into it, def not into SD), checks diglett, a painful mon at times (rock slide doesn't 3HKO), checks hitmonlee... It can go one on one against a whole bunch of stuff and soft check a couple of mons. Its only real counters are Muk/Weezing and Magneton, Pika can go one on one if it doesn't switch into Double-Edge. Honestly I think it will belong in 6U.

I think as time goes on, the tier will tell us that you want to run the bulky mons: Muk, Magneton, Champ, Tops, coupled with some glass cannons like Diglett, Dratini... (pika and meowth?), with some mons being between the two like Hitmonlee (this thing can rampage if muk/golbat aren't around), onix (not a bad speed, bind, magneton counter, boom...), butterfree... Other mons like Paras (I like that thing in my games) and Weepinbell can have a status utility, but speed hurts a lot. Speed will probably be key in the tier: you have less and less para spreaders, and movesets like 4 attack Magneton are interesting on sheet.
 
Yes, Golbat is pretty decent here, as I've constantly been stating it would. Speed + Hyper Beam + Mega Drain was always going to be useful before stuff like Hitmonchan. Poor Beedrill probably would've worked out okay in 6U if Kabutops wasn't so much better of a Swords Dance user. As far as tiering all evolved Pokemon, I expect it to be Hitmonchan, Beedrill, Farfetch'd (you forgot about him), and Weezing in 7U, and possibly Marowak and Pidgeot, with Ditto belonging in (whatever the last number is)U, everything else in 6U. From my testing, Onix is a pretty solid Pokemon thanks to its speed, Bind, (weak) Explosion, Wrap/Hyper Beam/Explosion absorbing and being a hard counter to Magneton/Pidgeot/Weezing as well as check to a bunch of stuff like Diglett, Flareon and Butterfree.
 
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This is the team I put together:

Butterfree
Ability: Compound Eyes
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Psychic
- Mega Drain

Weepinbell
Ability: Chlorophyll
- Sleep Powder
- Stun Spore
- Wrap
- Razor Leaf

Muk
Ability: Stench
- Body Slam
- Mega Drain
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Kabutops
Ability: Swift Swim
- Body Slam
- Swords Dance
- Submission
- Hyper Beam

Machamp
Ability: Guts
- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Submission

Marowak
Ability: Rock Head
- Earthquake
- Body Slam
- Blizzard
- Hyper Beam
Weepinbell can be dropped for Onix lead.

Basically, I tried to use the higher power level possible. I cut Pidgeot and Flareon because they're walled by Kabutops, and Magneton because it's walled by Marowak.
The team is slow and Wrap is a bore to go against. Every pokemon on my team hits Kabutops for SE damage, but it's scary when it sets up.

I have issues countering Butterfree's Psychic (Butterfree is my only good counter, Marowak is a weird second best option. Magneton would be a decent one).
There are pokemon like Diglett, Pikachu and Golbat that I don't know how to fit yet.

Obviously, I think Kabutops is going to be an interesting topic. It's stupid at times.
 
Although the Tier is pretty new, I guess the list of "good leads" is pretty obvious right now:
Butterfree, Pikachu, Magneton and Onix. Out of the Leads avaible, those are definately shining out the most, and idk what else you could run outside of attempts of sheer attack force.
Onix is likely to Ohko Butterfree, and walls Magneton Leads, Pikachu has Surf vs Onix and 2hkos Thunderbolt vs Butterfree, Magneton stalls Pikachu, has Tbolt vs Butterfree and is completely walled by Onix and Marowak, Electrics in general are walled by Sleepers other then Butterfree.

Magnetons Thunder Ohkos Kabutops, Pikachu Outspeeds it and 2hkos.
Lot more to add but I keep it short for now.

Just wanted to add this little text of Info for the discussion, since the Leads weren´t quite as part of the discussion as other topics.

Edit: As Enigami already pointed out, Diglett is another potentially viable option, As both Pika and Magneton don´t stand a chance vs it on a one vs one, whilest Pika gets KO´d in one turn. Versus Onix and Butterfree it at least stands a Chance.
 
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Diglett would also be a good lead. It needs a critical hit to win vs. Onix (and even then hope Onix doesn't crit back or decide to trade with Explosion) and Butterfree (alternatively a Sleep Powder to miss lets Diglett win too), but Pika and Magneton always lose against it.

marco, don't run Hyper Beam on Marowak. There is literally no reason to use it. What few Ground resists that exist in the tier are weak to and hit harder by Blizzard. Use Substitute or Fire Blast for burns/Paras. Counter or Ice Beam (for accuracy) could be situationally useful too. And if you're going to run Mega Drain + Thunderbolt Muk, I'd suggest Sludge over Body Slam for these reasons:

Muk Sludge vs. Paras: 418-492 (153.1 - 180.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Muk Sludge vs. Butterfree: 221-260 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Weepinbell: 110-130 (33 - 39%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Paras: 91-107 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Thunderbolt vs. Butterfree: 124-146 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Weepinbell: 97-114 (29.1 - 34.2%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO

Makes Muk considerably stronger against the status spreaders with the only downside being no paraslam, and having a slightly worse matchup vs opposing Muk (6HKO with Thunderbolt vs. 5HKO with Body Slam and 10% para chance vs. 30%). Edit: Also Diglett, missed that. Diglett's Poison resistance avoids a 2HKO from Sludge, while Body Slam has the 2HKO + paralysis chance.

A couple extra Sludge vs. Body Slam calcs:

Muk Body Slam vs. Pikachu: 120-142 (43.9 - 52%) -- 13% chance to 2HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Pikachu: 138-163 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Meowth: 112-132 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Meowth: 130-153 (45.9 - 54%) -- 49.8% chance to 2HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Machamp: 74-87 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Machamp: 85-100 (22.1 - 26.1%) -- 5.6% chance to 4HKO (5.8% 3HKO if Sludge poisons)
 
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Diglett would also be a good lead. It needs a critical hit to win vs. Onix (and hope Onix doesn't crit back or decide to trade with Explosion) and Butterfree (or Sleep Powder to miss), but Pika and Magneton always lose against it.

marco, don't run Hyper Beam on Marowak. There is literally no reason to use it. What few Ground resists that exist in the tier are weak to and hit harder by Blizzard. Use Substitute or Fire Blast for burns/Paras. Counter or Ice Beam (for accuracy) could be situationally useful too. And if you're going to run Mega Drain + Thunderbolt Muk, I'd suggest Sludge over Body Slam for these reasons:

Muk Sludge vs. Paras: 418-492 (153.1 - 180.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Muk Sludge vs. Butterfree: 221-260 (68.4 - 80.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Weepinbell: 110-130 (33 - 39%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Paras: 91-107 (33.3 - 39.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Thunderbolt vs. Butterfree: 124-146 (38.3 - 45.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Weepinbell: 97-114 (29.1 - 34.2%) -- 2.2% chance to 3HKO

Makes Muk considerably stronger against the status spreaders with the only downside being no paraslam, and having a slightly worse matchup vs opposing Muk (6HKO with Thunderbolt vs. 5HKO with Body Slam and 10% para chance vs. 30%). Edit: Also Diglett, missed that. Diglett's Poison resistance avoids a 2HKO from Sludge, while Body Slam has the 2HKO + paralysis chance.

A couple extra Sludge vs. Body Slam calcs:

Muk Body Slam vs. Pikachu: 120-142 (43.9 - 52%) -- 13% chance to 2HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Pikachu: 138-163 (50.5 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Meowth: 112-132 (39.5 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Meowth: 130-153 (45.9 - 54%) -- 49.8% chance to 2HKO
Muk Body Slam vs. Machamp: 74-87 (19.3 - 22.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Muk Sludge vs. Machamp: 85-100 (22.1 - 26.1%) -- 5.6% chance to 4HKO (5.8% 3HKO if Sludge poisons)

I have to admit I didn't think too much about Marowak's moveset (and any other one for that matter), but Hyper Beam is decent as a last effort or as a sweeping move. I can see a reason to use Substitute, mainly against fodders (I'm not sure I'll ever be able to spread enough paralysis and if I would, I'd be in a good position anyway).
I would take Hyper Beam over the options you gave me: it can hit both Muk and Butterfree for example, avoiding a mindgame; Substitute has definitely its merits though.
Paras is hit hard by Blizzard as well, and to be honest, it doesn't even exist in my book. Weepinbell is THE Grass, and it has enough flaws.

I wasn't happy with Muk offensively, and chances are that my moveset sucks. Machamp switches into Muk pretty easily.
Body Slam is the best move of the game because it causes paralysis and I would definitely use it, I'm not sure about the rest. It looks to me that Sludge won't be enough to solve Muk's issues, and sadly it can't learn Earthquake.

At this point, I like Marowak, Butterfree, Kabutops, Machamp, Magneton, Onix. Weepinbell and Muk are okay. Hitmonlee is fine too, I want to try both Machamp and Hitmonlee on the same team.
I didn't like Golbat and NFE (more like, basic pokemon!) are too weak, all of them; Pickachu makes sense and Meowth is at least fast enough to abuse Slash, but they still don't make the cut in my eyes.
Flareon is evil if you manage to take out Kabutops, but I hate to let it in (having to rely on a burn to generate somewhat of a profit that can be erased by a single Swords Dance, in the short term).
 
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Hyper Beam is not a 'last effort or sweeping move'. It serves to do literally nothing on Marowak in 6U besides give your opponent a free turn if it doesn't KO what it hits, since Earthquake is more accurate, has more PP, no drawbacks, the EXACT. SAME. POWER. (STAB is a thing, you know) and guess what? Everything that happens to resist Earthquake in the tier is hit much harder by Blizzard than Hyper Beam. Substitute serves a purpose. Fire Blast serves a purpose. Even Ice Beam with Blizzard serves a purpose. Hyper Beam, at best, sorta maybe eases prediction in the exact scenario that something is in KO range of both EQ and HB and the opponent has an EQ resist than also happens to be in HB range, which I find far more situational than EVERY other option I gave you.

Flareon vs. Kabutops you're better off paraslaming than burning it. Paralysis hurts Kabutops a lot more.
 
I could definitely see a lot of teams playing with Double Fighting Teams, comperable to Double Waters in 5U. Machamp is just that incredibly strong that I already see it as a Semi Staple in that early phase of the Tier.
Pika not making the cut? I don´t see why it would not.
Pika, after all, outspeeds Tops and threatens to 2hko it with Thunderbolt (1hko with Thunder), and Butterfree, the other Top Mon of the Tier, doesn´t like to face it either.
If it fails to do it´s job, it at least spreads para, or, if your oppenent runs ground, can damage said ground monsters to a point other teammates are able to take them out.

I could understand you saying Meowth couldn´t make the cut, it is just that incredibly frail, and isn´t able to take top threads out in 1 hit, but that is still up for debate.
 
Hyper Beam is not a 'last effort or sweeping move'. It serves to do literally nothing on Marowak in 6U besides give your opponent a free turn if it doesn't KO what it hits, since Earthquake is more accurate, has more PP, no drawbacks, the EXACT. SAME. POWER. (STAB is a thing, you know) and guess what? Everything that happens to resist Earthquake in the tier is hit much harder by Blizzard than Hyper Beam. Substitute serves a purpose. Fire Blast serves a purpose. Even Ice Beam with Blizzard serves a purpose. Hyper Beam, at best, sorta maybe eases prediction in the exact scenario that something is in KO range of both EQ and HB and the opponent has an EQ resist than also happens to be in HB range, which I find far more situational than EVERY other option I gave you.

Flareon vs. Kabutops you're better off paraslaming than burning it. Paralysis hurts Kabutops a lot more.

Hyper Beam guarantees some damage before Marowak would go down anyway. Butterfree can switch into Earthquake and take zero, and it could be back breaking in case it can land Sleep Powder too- those things happen and pokemon isn't an A vs B game, and I think easing prediction during endgame is what I want from my filler move.
Substitute definitely serves a purpose, so does Hyper Beam. I don't see Ice Beam and Fire Blast being as useful.

I agree that paralyzing Kabutops is better, but your opponent might just stay in at some point. Same as above, I don't like to be scammed by a gutsy opponent - you don't Body Slam a Marowak.

I could definitely see a lot of teams playing with Double Fighting Teams, comperable to Double Waters in 5U.
Pika not making the cut? I don´t see why it would not.
Pika, after all, outspeeds Tops and threatens to 2hko it with Thunderbolt (1hko with Thunder), and Butterfree, the other Top Mon of the Tier, doesn´t like to face it either.
If it fails to do it´s job, it at least spreads para, or, if your oppenent runs ground, can damage said ground monsters to a point other teammates are able to take them out.

I could understand you saying Meowth couldn´t make the cut, it is just that incredibly frail, and isn´t able to take top threads out in 1 hit, but that is still up for debate.

Hitmonlee's speed helps and Machamp is great. They're just good and I see myself gladly using them both.
Pikachu has a niche, but it is as close as it gets to #0 defense: zero. Machamp OHKOs and literally anything, even Muk (that is awful offensively) screws Pikachu - Magneton has just better bulk.
Meowth is fast and can use Slash, but I'll take Marowak, Machamp and Hitmonlee over it anyway.
 
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Some thoughts after a couple of games:

Machamp kabutops and butterfree are the big forces of the tier. Champ is bulky and powerful, it can take on almost anything, kabutops is difficult to switch into (you don't want to let it an opportunity to set up) and threatens a lot too, butterfree is the fast sleeper/para spreader with a nice ground immunty and access to psychic in a tier where fighting types will prevail

Other mons did a very good impression: marowak is the ground type, packs bulk some power, it blocks magneton and has that nice blizzard for grass and butterfree. Also it doesn't have an eq weakness unlike onix and has an actual attack stat. Hitmonlee seems good too, although it's blocked by a couple of mons, but most of them don't do much offensively.

I used Muk a bit because I like the bulk and the power (mostly with boom sadly) it's annoying to take down, but you might prefer a mon like Machoke, who's pretty decent with some bulk and a movepool.

Other mentions: Magneton won't be able to do much with all the marowaks around, sadly. Pika looks usuable (not sure it's more than that tbh, I guess it could get annoying). I tried Ivysaur since it outspeeds machamp compared to weepinbell which speeds ties, not sure it's that good. It's probably around D rank, it can somehow switch into like hitmonlee and get off some damage, it has SD etc. Doesn't have stun spore or wrap but idk about wrap being useful or not. Wrap can at least help you play around paralysed butterfree. Paras sucks.
 
How to teambuild:

Put these on every team:
machamp.png
kabutops.png
butterfree.png
marowak.png


Choose a lead:
butterfree.png
pikachu.png
diglett.png
onix.png
marowak.png


If you choose lead Butterfree:
weepinbell.png


If you choose lead Marowak:
pidgeot.png


Choose a filler:
hitmonlee.png
machoke.png


Comments:
The big 4 are the best Pokemon by a long way. Butterfree is a good lead that almost nothing switches into. Pikachu / Diglett / Onix anti-lead it. Pikachu > Onix > Diglett > Pikachu because Pokemon is really weird. Marowak beats the anti-leads but not Butterfree. If you run Butterfree lead, you need a Weepinbell to give you a secondary sleeper. If you run marowak, Pidgeot is a good idea as one of the remaining slots to give you sleep bait. Hitmonlee / Machoke both make good filler options.

Stuff that might be viable but is more untested:
pidgeot.png
Running this as the filler slot instead is an option. It can at least take sleep from butterfree and gives you something like a switch-in to it. However it is easily walled (but can kind of do something to Kabutops a least). Maybe bad.
ponyta.png
Outspeeds Kabutops and has Fire Spin, therefore giving it some hope. Probably bad.
charmeleon.png
SD + Submission lets it do something to Kabutops, but submission recoil + hydro pump probably KOs charmeleon. Can kind of switch into Butterfree. Also has Fire Spin. Speed ties Kabutops which is nice. Probably bad.
flareon.png
walled by kabutops too but is just so good vs butterfree and has great stats that itmight be worth something. Maybe try it with Pidgeot to get that Kabutops out of the way before using it. Maybe bad.
ivysaur.png
has a speed advantage over weepinbell, no stun spore tho and less attack and overall special bulk. Probably ok.
dratini.png
blizzard 2hkos wak and onix, tbolt does decent vs tops idr if it 2hkos, twave, wrap lets it escape some matchups but even machamp outspeeds it. Can't take hits so pair with another partial trapper [onix / weepinbell] if you want to try it. Probably bad.
muk.png
mostly trades with stuff with explosion. Bad type matchup vs the meta but its ok vs hitmonlee. Mega Drain for Onix / Kabutops. Probably ok but hasn't worked well so far in practice.
gloom.png
more physical bulk than bel / saur makes it better in practice vs kabutops. Might be viable.
clefairy.png
maybe this is ok as a butterfree answer? but the rest of the metagame is horrible for it. Probably bad.
sandshrew.png
ch01 suggested running it alongside marowak. worse basically everywhere but has sd and rock slide. Probably bad?
omanyte.png
if you really wanna fuck over kabutops, but is fucked by machamp. Probably bad.
seel.png
the closest thing to a bulky water, but isn't that bulky. Probably bad.
nidorina.png
i mentioned nidorino and then enigimmick started theorymonning some reflect set. He can say moar

Don't use:
meowth.png
Too frail, hitmonlee is kinda just better
golbat.png
Just not strong enough in spite of type advantages and good moves vs like everything lol
magneton.png
walled by omnipresent marowak. speed ties butterfree tho which makes a lead set look momentarily appealing.
weezing.png
mostly outclassed by muk which at least can get past onix
paras.png
i think peas tried this lol. rby is weird
tentacool.png
doesn't switch into anything
 
Tbolt on Dratini 3hkos Kabutops, it doesn´t take it out in 2 Hits.
And about Tentacool: I wouldn´t quite put it in the League of the other "Shouldn´t be used" mons, it is not consistent but I guess it could work in cooperation with another partial Trapper. The other ones are pretty much outclassed by mons mentioned before though.
I can´t say much about Sandshrew, I just thought it could work as Waks Partner, being the more frail version of it with the option to fish for Fullpara (SD).

Ivysaur needs more testing as well, can´t say much about it yet.

Other then that, I agree with the post.
 
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Omanyte doesn't work well against Submission Tops, which I've seen a few of.

Sandshrew is a weaker Marowak, but where it might sort of work is being a less Butterfree-weak Machoke as its physical bulk is pretty decent, STAB Earthquake off of 75 Atk is only slightly worse than Maro's 80 Atk, and SD can give it some extra power if it finds an opportunity. It falls apart to any special attacks that aren't from Butterfree though.

A couple more things to add to the 'Stuff that might be viable but is more untested' pile:
horsea.png
60 Speed + 70 SpA Hydro Pump can do some hefty damage to the slow bulky mons of the tier. If only its HP stat wasn't so low.
nidorina.png
56 Speed gives her the first move against Machamp, BlizzBolt gives complete coverage, BubbleBeam can OHKO Onix (40-ish percent chance, also 10% speed drop chance), bulk is good when not faced with Earthquake/Psychic (which unfortunately includes half the tier including 3 S ranks, though Maro loses 1v1), also a very strong secondary Weepinbell check because Razor Leaf resistance + Blizzard + outspeeding. Thunderbolt only 3HKOs Kabutops (Thunder 2HKOs if you can put up with 70% accuracy), however her bulk means she can survive to attack atleast twice so she'll get some hefty damage in. 55 Special with only BlizzBolt for meaningful coverage is bad though (besides BubbleBeam for Onix).

Edit: Also, Weepin anti-leads all the other leads that aren't Butterfree. Also, Charmeleon 'kind of switches into Butterfree'?
Butterfree Psychic vs. Charmeleon: 73-86 (22.8 - 26.9%) -- 37.9% chance to 4HKO
Charmeleon Fire Blast vs. Butterfree: 231-272 (71.5 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It's not that bad off, only a chance of 4HKO (outside of Spc falls/crits) with Charmeleon being faster with Fire Spin means Butterfree's in a really bad spot if it attacks or misses a powder.

Edit2: I think I might've worked out Muk's best set. Sludge / Mega Drain / Acid Armor / Explosion (or maybe Rest, which when paired with Acid Armor + enough luck to not be crit'd could let Muk use Rest in front of EQ users since even the strongest EQ only 4HKO's +2 Muk). Sludge / Mega Drain hits everything you need to besides fringe threats like Golbat, which you can explode on if you had to anyway and can't even really do anything through Acid Armor. Acid Armor buys you an extra turn vs. Marowak and Machoke (bumps EQ from 2/3HKO to 4/5HKO respectively) since you move first, and gives you a big way to take advantage of Hitmonlee since Acid Armor both screws Hitmonlee and lets Muk put up more of a fight against all the EQ users. Mega Drain combined with Acid Armor also really helps Muk to trade with Maro.
 
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