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RBY No Sleep Team (anti-meta)

Discussion in 'Public Teams' started by EvanRBY, May 15, 2020.

  1. EvanRBY

    EvanRBY Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Been a while since I've posted. I've been playing around with anti-meta teams, and I've built a team I really like.

    My theory is the move sleep can be unreliable with T0 - T1 wake ups, < 100% accuracy, and opposing teams walling using a paralyzed mon. Also, sleeper mons aren't bulky and cannot regenerate. The concept is build as strong a team as possible without being hampered by needing a mon for sleep. This team works by having 5 para spreaders that can all fully regenerate. It also has good speed, physical bulk, special bulk, and wall breakers.

    Here's the team:

    Screen Shot 2020-05-14 at 7.24.00 PM.png

    Alakazam
    Ability: none
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover
    - Seismic Toss

    Starmie
    Ability: none
    - Thunderbolt
    - Psychic
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave

    Chansey (F)
    Ability: none
    - Seismic Toss
    - Reflect
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Thunder Wave

    Slowbro
    Ability: none
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Amnesia
    - Rest

    Snorlax
    Ability: none
    - Ice Beam
    - Rest
    - Reflect
    - Body Slam

    Tauros (M)
    Ability: none
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard
    - Hyper Beam


    Strategy:

    Zam - Initial para. Takes sleep if opponent has a T1 sleeper. If put to sleep, see if you can get a T0 or T1 wake up and try to keep chipping away at sleeper. If opp goes Lax or Tauros, switch into your Lax.

    Star - Kept in back as additional speed + good physical bulk, tbolt kills opponent waters, psychic to help break walls.

    Chan - reflect chans best para spreader build, bulky against reflect lax to force a rest, bulky against jolt / zapdos, can PP stall traditional chans.

    Bro - Arguably best para spreader in game and should be played VERY OFFENSIVELY -> used in midgame on this team to spread para and chip damage. Only amnesia x1 or x2 then start spamming psychic and twave as indicated. The spec drops from psychic are crippling, and can turn speed momentum if needed to break walls. Only fully bulk up if indicated.

    Lax - Ice beam wins lax wars, threatens rocks, can wreak havoc when enough of opponent's team is para'd.

    Tauros - once opponent's team is weakened and para'd, you clean up.




    Lemme know what you think. This team easily took #1 spot on ladder recently during testing (although the state of the ladder isn't what it used to be). I also think this could be viable in high-end meta due to your opponent not likely understanding the strategy of no sleepers.
     
  2. Lusch

    Lusch A critical hit! Member

    Joined:
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    Nice to see you again! Interesting Team. Glad it's working for you to claim #1.

    Personally, I think this team looks quite weak to Zapdos and even Rhydon.

    Zapdos is pretty obvious, you have no real good check to it. Chansey is your defense, but if that is not around anymore (got boomed?) or gets crit by Zapdos, things look bleak. You cannot even trade Lax vs it because you lack Self-Destruct. Seems like a very dangerous Pokemon to face. It might work in current meta, because Zapdos is actually at an all-time-low currently, because most teams are in fact that much prepared for it.
    My proposal to fix that one up would be to at least put Self-Destruct on Snorlax (over Ice Beam). That way you can try to trade Snorlax for Zapdos, which is a really nice trade for this team. I know you want IceLax to beat oppposing Snorlax, but if you have Reflect Chansey, maybe that is not as needed anymore. Optional additional change could be Blizzard on Starmie . You should not fight Zapdos with Starmie, but if it comes to it, Starmie can put really great damage in the 1v1 if you carry Blizzard.

    Rhydon seems problematic too. No Exeggutor means no real EQ switch-in. Your Chansey let's Rhydon Sub for free and your Starmie does not 2HKO. If both are paralyzed you lack a good way to deal with it. Even Slowbro is not the biggest thread, since it does not carry Surf and hence does not OHKO even at +2. Rhydon comes in on resting Snorlax and Slowbro and can 3HKO both with EQ. Your only realy switch-in is Tauros. Nothing you'd like to see usually.
    My proposal to fix that one up would be to put Surf (yes) or Blizzard (in agreement with the change above if you want to cover Zapdos even more) on Starmie (over Psychic) . That way your Starmie scares the crap out of any Rhydon trying to take advantage of it being paralyzed, while still maintaining the Thunderbolt vs waters and wallbraeking ability of Psychic vs Normals. Yea, the Special drops of Psychic help a ton, but you gotta take some sacrifices and Surf seems a great compromise, since you are walled by Eggy wether you run Psychic or Surf. Optional additional change could be Surf on Slowbro. Gives you a safe OHKO on Rhydon even without boosts.

    So bottomline: Without changing the premise (no sleep move) and Pokemon of the team my proposed line-up looks like this:
    Alakazam
    Ability: none
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Recover
    - Seismic Toss

    Starmie
    Ability: none
    - Thunderbolt
    - Surf
    - Recover
    - Thunder Wave

    Chansey (F)
    Ability: none
    - Seismic Toss
    - Reflect
    - Soft-Boiled
    - Thunder Wave

    Slowbro
    Ability: none
    - Psychic
    - Thunder Wave
    - Amnesia
    - Rest

    Snorlax
    Ability: none
    - Self-Destruct
    - Rest
    - Reflect
    - Body Slam

    Tauros (M)
    Ability: none
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Blizzard
    - Hyper Beam

    Maybe you can try this and share your experience :]
     
  3. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

    Joined:
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    I wouldn't say that this team is extremely good nor I agree with the assumption that sleep inducing moves are not worth it, but the fact that this team got to the top of the ladder is interesting.
    Two Rest users and Recover trio looks solid indeed.

    I don't feel like trying to fix the weaknesses this team has; i'm not going for the "omg play the team to its strenghts" nonsense either (I like "I'll enjoy my good matchups and take the risks I need in case I'll get the bad ones and it's not going to work anyway" better).
    If anything, you could try Jynx lead.
    This leads to the main lesson hidden here: how does laddering work? How did this team take advantage of the ladder's metagame?

    Laddering is a frustrating experience, we all know that (how can you say that getting to the top of the ladder was easy is beyond me - maybe you're talking about getting to the top and not staying on top of it): you will get nightmare matchups no matter what you decide to play.
    Is a loss that bad for you? It depends: the whole point of laddering (competitively) is to get either the highest peak you can, or the highest GXE you can (or both).
    I don't know the intricacies of these rankings, so someone else can answer this better than me - anyway, I have the feeling that different purposes require different philosophies in teambuilding and if you're going for a high ELO, a team that beats most stuff on the metagame is very appealing even if it loses pretty badly to something rare. High GXE? I don't know.

    This team features the best possible combination to beat Jynx/switch into it, which is common on the ladder; on the other hand Zapdos is pretty rare.
    It also has the best Snorlax variant to fight opposing Reflect Laxes, and it has a very linear plan for the early game with a Chansey variant and a 6th slot choice (Slowbro) that are coherent with it; even more, the whole team (but Chansey) has the tools to fight para'd Chansey.

    TL;DR: these things make me believe that, on paper, this team is extremely consistent at doing what it's supposed to do in the matchups it is supposed to win.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    TerrakionSmash, Christos and samy0w like this.

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