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RBY 4U (Under3U) Nidoking [GP Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Peasounay, Mar 23, 2016.

  1. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    Nidoking [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Type: Ground / Poison
    Stats: 81 | 92 | 77 | 75 | 85

    Introduction

    Nidoking is the most powerful and the most dangerous pokemon in 4U. It hits very hard, has a perfect coverage, and does not have any consistent switch-in. Its Ground type makes it immuned to Thunder Wave, meaning it can come-in for free if you predict well. It’s also fast, meaning it critical hits often, and has enough bulk to take some hits, notably non-STAB Psychics. Nidoking is tough to handle and functions as a breaker as well as a cleaner. It is arguably the best pokemon in the tier and should be on every team.

    Mixed Attacker

    Nidoking
    - Earthquake
    - Thunderbolt
    - Fire Blast
    - Substitute / Blizzard

    Set Details

    This set covers everything. Thunderbolt hits the common Waters Blastoise, Slowpoke, and Staryu. Fire Blast takes care of Venomoth and Tangela, while Earthquake heavily hits everything else and is the move you should mainly be spamming. The last slot doesn’t matter a lot since you won’t use it too much, the more consistent options being Blizzard and Substitute. Blizzard has a better accuracy than Fire Blast for Grass types, and more power than Thunderbolt for the rare Flying types. Substitute can give you a free hit against a paralysed mon or an inaccurate move. You can use a bunch of other moves in that slot.

    Other Options

    For the last slot you can use Counter mainly against Scyther. Body Slam can eventually spread paralysis notably to Venomoth but is pretty poor. Rock Slide hits Scyther harder than other moves but doesn’t OHKO.

    Checks and Counters

    Nothing switches-in Nidoking consistently, nor repeatedly. Venomoth doesn’t get 2HKOd by Earthquake, outspeeds, and can threat to sleep, paralyse, or use Psychic. Tangela can also take the Earthquake and threat to sleep or paralyse. If you paralyse it, it’ll be way easier to handle, but it’s something that rarely happens. You can make everything on your team prevent it from coming in easily, through use of Psychic/Ice/Water/Ground attacks, status, or at worst the threat of burning with Fire Blast. Constructing a team that is hostile to King is the best approach to handling it, as not only is it difficult for King to enter play, but also you have a lot of tools that can situationally check it. With a team that's hostile to King, it becomes reluctant to take a hit early in the match because it's often likely to need that bulk later in the game to stomach a random super effective hit- it can take a hit to land a KO, but it can't do that multiple times.

    If at some point during the match you think your opponent is gonna predict you to Thunder Wave with pokemon such as Porygon or Slowpoke, it can be good to take a risk and use Psychic, since it puts the opposite Nidoking in the range of your own, giving you a mathematical advantage. In the case of Slowpoke, you can even bring-in your Nidoking for free if your opponent uses Thunderbolt. Also, after a Psychic, Scyther can also come-in Earthquake and finish Nidoking off by using Slash twice, even negating the potential burn from a Fire Blast. Scyther loses 1v1 but can also come in after two Nidoking shared Earthquake and finish off.

    Later on in the game, poorer checks such as Blastoise, Staryu, and Slowpoke might need to be used to check it, but often you can sacrifice something not useful (e.g. low health and para'd, asleep) and bring in your own Nidoking/Abra/low health Venomoth to force it out or get solid damage on it. Other switch-ins exist, such as Machamp, which has 57.2% chance to get 3HKOd by Earthquake but can come in and threat to 2HKO, though it's a mediocre pokemon to use in general. Seadra speed ties and 2HKOs but it gets 3HKOd so if you come in Earthquake it’s a 50/50. Omastar can’t switch-in apart on a Fire Blast but has 64.1% chance of OHKOing with Hydro Pump.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    surely sub should be first slash, and body slam should be slashed too (annoys certain switch-ins more than attacking/sometimes it's safer than trying to predict). At the least it should be moved out of OO to set details. I'd say 'arguably' the best mon in the tier (I think venomoth is better in some ways for example).

    You should make it clear that a lot of the time you want to be spamming EQ since not much resists it and the coverage moves aren't hitting waters/moth all that much harder.

    You're overselling it in C&C. Venomoth and Tangela are both switch-ins during the early part of the game. Both have paralysis, and moth outspeeds it, hits it hard, and takes EQ reasonably well. Yeah nothing will switch in repeatedly.. but nothing switches into venomoth repeatedly either, so what's your point? Say how you can make everything on your team prevent it from coming in easily, through use of psychic/ice/water/ground attacks, status, or at worst the threat of burning with Fire Blast (hint: every pokemon you should be using can do that). Say that later on in the game, poorer checks such as Blastoise, Staryu, and Slowpoke might need to be used to check it, but that often you can sacrifice something not useful (e.g. low health and para'd, asleep) and bring in your own nidoking/abra/low health venomoth to force it out or get solid damage on it. Note that scyther, whilst a ground immunity, will lose 1v1, but after nidokings share earthquakes then it can switch in and KO from there (I presume?). Keep the note that oma has good odds to ohko, and note that seadra/machamp are arguably the best available checks/switch-ins available. Not sure if I got everything.
     
  3. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Definitely foddering pokemon is not the best way to handle it. That's something you do in the later stages of the game where you've got less resources for handling Nido, but suggesting that it's anything other than situational is an exaggeration.

    Chain switching can sometimes be of use if you've got an EQ immune or Tangela or something.

    As DA says, constructing a team that is hostile to King is the best approach to handling it, as not only is it difficult for King to enter play, but also you have a lot of tools that can situationally check it. With a team that's hostile to King, it becomes reluctant to take a hit early in the match because it's often likely to need that bulk later in the game to stomach a random super effective hit- it can take a hit to land a KO, but it can't do that multiple times

    Also why is Blizz the primary slot? Its quite redundant really, whereas Sub is a bit more unreliable but potentially very rewarding. Having said that, why is Body Slam a thing? Why would I fish for para when I could be killing things instead? I mean yeah, I get not having to predict, but King does have EQ for that
     
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  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    well yeah obv sub should be first slot like I said, guess ur right about bslam.. i'll take it back and concede ur/peas' point that it should be in OO

    rest of what u said is rly good
     
  5. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    Alright the analysis is updated with all of your comments (thank you two for those, interesting), not easy.
     
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  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Mention that Blizzard is also Nidoking's best move versus the incredibly rare Marowak although Fire Blast still is an okay move versus it due to its chance to burn so again it's not strictly nessecary. Sub is great for abusing sleeping, paralyzed, and frozen pokemon.

    Also in C&C, mention how no move from Nidoking can 2HKO (rather than just EQ) [although Fire Blast comes close].

    Mention how Tangela + Omastar is a workable core to cover Nidoking too - Tangela resists EQ which Nido loves to spam and 2HKOs Omastar, whilst Omastar 4x resists Fire Blast, and can OHKO with Hydro Pump. Tangela can take a Fire Blast and Stun Spore or Sleep Powder in return.

    Running a team with a lot of water types make a team particularly hostile to Nidoking.

    Slowpoke can often bring in Nidoking and guarantee damage on it with an Amnesia-boosted Psychic early-game, since some teams will use Venomoth to get sleep early game, and have little in response to Slowpoke other than Nidoking and not letting it set up. This can let you beat it in the ditto that often occurs later on in the game more consistently.

    Also, mention that a handful of Pokemon, if unparalyzed, can revenge kill it making them usable as sweepers in the endgame. Scyther has already been mentioned, but Abra (although it finds it hard to switch in), Venomoth (although it is often too weak to switch in by this time), Staryu (although it speed ties), and in unlikely circumstances also the fires (Rapidash / Arcanine). Abra / Moth are the most important ones in the circumstance I just described. Make a note of how a number of very rare Pokemon can also perform this duty, such as Diglett and Pidgeot. Some Pokemon such as Electrode and Muk can hope to explode on Nidoking, but it doesn't OHKO (unless there is a sharp defense drop from Electrode's Screech) although with some chip damage could be sufficient.
     
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Note Toxic in OO as its best defense against Dragonair.
     

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