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RBY Ubers / 1P Mewtwo [Done]

Discussion in 'Analyses' started by Ortheore, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Mewtwo [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Type: Psychic
    Base stats: 106 | 110 | 90 | 154 | 130

    Words do not describe the sheer might of Mewtwo in RBY. It is a force unlike any other, as it is nigh unfaintable and its enormous offensive presence warps the entire tier around it. Its base stats speak for themselves—a monstrous mix of power and speed to go along with gargantuan mixed bulk. Its movepool certainly doesn't let it down either, boasting Recover and Amnesia in addition to STAB Psychic and the BoltBeam combination. If it's an example of dominance you want, then look no further, for few fit that description better than Mewtwo.

    How to overcome Mewtwo

    I originally had the section on constructing Mewtwo's set first but I decided it's probably best to outline the best ways of dealing with opposing Mewtwo, just so you have some idea of what different coverage options are targeting. Generally, there are three methods of dealing with Mewtwo:

    1- Freeze: Keep the opposing Mewtwo free from paralysis and spam Ice Beam with something that walls it. Good candidates are your own Mewtwo, Light Screen variants of Chansey and Starmie, Mew, and Ice Beam Slowbro (I don't think I've ever seen someone run this, but it could work). Bear in mind that Mewtwo has ways around any of the aforementioned Pokemon except for itself.

    2- Paralyse and threaten with physical attackers (Exploders): This can be a tough one, since Mewtwo's physical bulk is fantastic and exactly zero physical attackers are capable of withstanding Mewtwo for long. Fortunately, many players are wary of catching an Explosion that can put Mewtwo in an uncomfortable position and can change the momentum of the game. Good candidates for this are Mew, Snorlax, and Exeggutor.

    3- PP Stall. Mewtwo has enormous difficulty breaking through opposing Mewtwo, and if neither Mewtwo is able to freeze, the match will usually progress into a PP stall war. There are only three things that should attempt to PP stall Mewtwo- opposing Mewtwo, Slowbro if Mewtwo lacks Thunderbolt and Chansey and Amnesia Snorlax if Mewtwo lacks Psychic. An unparalysed Mew is also of great benefit if you're stalling with your own Mewtwo, as it alleviates some of the burden on Mewtwo. Letting your Mewtwo take paralysis bears some advantage due to not depleting PP as fast, although it is not without its risks. Also note that Mewtwo is capable of haxing all of the aforementioned walls to death, particularly Slowbro and Lax as an untimely critical hit can spell trouble.

    Constructing a Mewtwo set

    Absolute requirements

    Amnesia: You will regularly call upon your Mewtwo to wall opposing Mewtwo. Mewtwo with Amnesia beats those without, and if you can't wall Mewtwo, you lose. So yeah, you kinda need Amnesia.

    Recover: Do I even need to go into this? Keeps you alive, and your alternative is Rest.


    Pick two
    =========

    Common

    Psychic: Gets boosted by STAB, effectively making it Mewtwo's most powerful attack and the best option if there's no type advantages between it and Mewtwo's coverage options (e.g. versus Normal-types). It is also capable of breaking down literally anything without Amnesia, most notably Chansey. In fact, if Mewtwo lacks Psychic, Chansey can actually be very difficult to break through.

    Ice Beam: Ice Beam is not about coverage, rather it's about playing for a freeze, mainly against opposing Mewtwo. Freezing Mewtwo is so important that that alone makes it one of Mewtwo's better options, and you should be sure to plan accordingly—make sure you keep opposing Mewtwo free of paralysis while getting your own paralysed.

    Thunderbolt: Most notable thing this move does is shred Slowbro, which would otherwise threaten to stall out variants lacking Thunderbolt, as well as also beating Starmie without wasting a ton of PP. It offers little beyond that, but if you're ever in a PP war, it does have an extra 8 PP compared to Ice Beam.

    TL;DR: No Ice Beam means no freeze (particularly notable versus Mewtwo), no Psychic means Chansey and Amnesia Snorlax wall you, and no Thunderbolt means Slowbro walls you.


    Uncommon

    Barrier: I've never seen anyone besides myself run this, but I think it's a really good option on Mewtwo. It shuts down any physical counter on offense while giving you a massive advantage in PP stall wars. The downside is that Mewtwo becomes very limited in its attacking PP, which limits your ability to play aggressively.

    Questionable: these moves may have some value but generally aren't worth it.

    Rest: OK, this one is in place of Recover rather than one of the pick two slots. Excellent means of wasting turns in PP stall wars and it clears status. Whether you actually want status cleared is another question and there's also the fact that conceding that many free turns is never a good thing.

    Blizzard: Mewtwo's most powerful coverage option. There are some situations when this can come in handy, but the greatly reduced PP is really bad.

    Thunder Wave: Against anything that isn't Mewtwo, you're better off attacking or boosting.

    Physical Attacks: Most Pokemon in Ubers are very physically bulky, so Mewtwo's Attack stat isn't quite good enough to make it work. If I had to pick a physical attack, I guess Hyper Beam could sneak some surprise KOs, but it bears significant opportunity cost. Submission and Thunderbolt are effective against Chansey and Slowbro teams but is suboptimal otherwise. Everything else is terrible. Self-Destruct may seem alluring for taking out opposing Mewtwo, but it only deals 52-61%, and you're sacrificing your Mewtwo, making it a generally awful option


    Mewtwo
    - Amnesia
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic / Thunderbolt

    Other Comments

    The funny thing is that despite being so fat, Mewtwo tends to be played as if it's frail, because it's just so important that risking it to early-game Pokemon like Snorlax or Ice-type attacks from Jynx isn't worth it when you should have plenty of other stuff to handle that. Never let Mewtwo take unnecessary Ice-type attacks, as frozen Mewtwo often means you lose the game. Likewise, just because it can deal with things like Snorlax, doesn't mean it should, since you never want to risk an Explosion that does a ton of damage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2016
    Disaster Area, marcoasd and Lutra like this.
  2. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    I think it should be mentioned that you have to be careful with Slowbro vs Psychic with crits and switching into special downs.

    Also, Submission + Tbolt isn't too bad vs ChanBro teams.
     
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  3. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    LOL, you're quickly becoming my main man.
     
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  4. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    @Lutra I edited to reflect your post. Submission/Tbolt is now mentioned, but it's still in poor options

    Also removed my comment about Psychic being the best choice for a mono-attacking set since I honestly haven't tested IB/Tbolt, but now that I actually think about it I can't see any reason why they wouldn't be viable.

    I mean IB isn't the greatest attacking choice because you're then walled by Chansey and Slowbro when you really want to be stalling M2, but freezes are cool. Tbolt is notable for dismantling Bro at the expense of struggling vs Chansey but you may well decide Chansey's easier to remove (it probably is). Also 8 extra PP is cool. The reason I assumed Psychic is simply because STAB, it's really spammable and the only things that wall you are Bro (team support) and Mewtwo (the thing you want to be stalling)

    =]

    Edit: also expanded a bit more on the threat of explosion because I felt I was underselling it. And rearranged the post so explosions are now in the appropriate spot

    Edit2: Thanks Marco, cool catch
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2015
  5. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    Mewtwo needs Psychic to beat Amnesia Snorlax, too. CH BeamBolt is often below 50% (31% to 2HKO).
    Thunderbolt has 8 more PPs for stall wars too, though.
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I think Mewtwo's own Self-Destruct should get a mention in Poor Options - there's quite a lot of hype around using Explosion to take out Mewtwo, and thus the possibility of using Self-Destruct Mewtwo should be discussed - if it's poor explain why of course! :] Otherwise this is great work, although I feel a couple of bits are slightly unprofessional for an analysis [comments @ gengar's explosion, change Other random comments to Other comments, shitload should probably just be replaced with something like lots, and the comments about smogon's analysis can be removed from the OP and said elsewhere in the thread lol].

    On that note it's not the only poor smogon analysis by a long way, but is that really a surprise? Lol. I would love Pokemon Perfect to outshine themin RBY. :]

    o also underline the Constructing a Mewtwo set section.

    Anything else can be left for the Grammar and Prose people that we should have sooner rather than later :O (I spoke to a pretty good friend of mine who's on the Smogon GP team and uses Pokemon Perfect too (they're called Malley on here - they've played in the PP ORAS tours and won the first of them).
     
  7. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    ha "unprofessional"

    For real tho, edited to reflect your comments, comment for smogon's analysis is below. I know smogon's analyses generally aren't all that great but I had to mention it because their mewtwo analysis is unusually bad, really far-removed from reality. Also I'm unaware of any hype around Mewtwo's boom. I thought people could generally tell that it's a really terrible option

     
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  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Well if you can get into a scenario where it's Mewtwo vs Mewtwo and the opposing Mewtwo is in range, you could very well construct your team to take advantage of the 'queen trade' that is losing both Mewtwo's, but if you can't then I'd advise make it clear.
     
  9. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    was a bit confused on what to gp
    [​IMG] gp 1/1

    Mewtwo
    Type: Psychic
    Base stats: 106|110|90|154|130

    Words do not describe the sheer might of Mewtwo in RBY. It is a force unlike any other, as it is nigh unfaintable and its enormous offensive presence warps the entire tier around it. Its base stats speak for themselves—a monstrous mix of power and speed to go along with gargantuan mixed bulk. Its movepool certainly doesn't let it down either, boasting Recover and Amnesia in addition to STAB Psychic and the BoltBeam combination. If it's an example of dominance you want, then look no further, for few fit that description better than Mewtwo.

    How to overcome Mewtwo

    I originally had the section on constructing Mewtwo's set first but I decided it's probably best to outline the best ways of dealing with opposing Mewtwo, just so you have some idea of what different coverage options are targeting. Generally, there are three methods of dealing with Mewtwo:

    1- Freeze: Keep the opposing Mewtwo free from paralysis and spam Ice Beam with something that walls it. Good candidates are your own Mewtwo, Light Screen variants of Chansey and Starmie, Mew, and Ice Beam Slowbro (I don't think I've ever seen someone run this, but it could work). Bear in mind that Mewtwo has ways around any of the aforementioned Pokemon except for itself.

    2- Paralyse and threaten with physical attackers (Exploders): This can be a tough one, since Mewtwo's physical bulk is fantastic and exactly zero physical attackers are capable of withstanding Mewtwo for long. Fortunately, many players are wary of catching an Explosion that can put Mewtwo in an uncomfortable position and can change the momentum of the game. Good candidates for this are Mew, Snorlax, and Exeggutor.

    3- PP Stall: Mewtwo has enormous difficulty breaking through opposing Mewtwo, and if neither Mewtwo is able to freeze, the match will usually progress into a PP stall war. There are only three things that should attempt to PP stall Mewtwo—opposing Mewtwo; Slowbro if Mewtwo lacks Thunderbolt; Chansey; and Amnesia Snorlax if Mewtwo lacks Psychic. Letting your Mewtwo be paralysed bears some advantage due to not depleting PP as fast, although it is not without its risks. This is because Mewtwo is capable of haxing all of the aforementioned walls to death, particularly Slowbro and Snorlax, as an untimely critical hit can spell trouble.

    Constructing a Mewtwo set

    Absolute requirements

    Amnesia: You will regularly call upon your Mewtwo to wall opposing Mewtwo. Mewtwo with Amnesia beats those without, and if you can't wall Mewtwo, you lose. So yeah, you kinda need Amnesia.

    Recover: Do I even need to go into this? Keeps you alive, and your alternative is Rest.


    Pick two
    =========
    Common
    Psychic: Gets boosted by STAB, effectively making it Mewtwo's most powerful attack and the best option if there's no type advantages between it and Mewtwo's coverage options (e.g. versus Normal-types). It is also capable of breaking down literally anything without Amnesia, most notably Chansey. In fact, if Mewtwo lacks Psychic, Chansey can actually be very difficult to break through.

    Ice Beam: Ice Beam is not about coverage, rather it's about playing for a freeze, mainly against opposing Mewtwo. Freezing Mewtwo is so important that that alone makes it one of Mewtwo's better options, and you should be sure to plan accordingly—make sure you keep opposing Mewtwo free of paralysis while getting your own paralysed.

    Thunderbolt: Most notable thing this move does is shred Slowbro, which would otherwise threaten to stall out variants lacking Thunderbolt, as well as also beating Starmie without wasting a ton of PP. It offers little beyond that, but if you're ever in a PP war, it does have an extra 8 PP compared to Ice Beam.

    TL;DR: No Ice Beam means no freeze (particularly notable versus Mewtwo), no Psychic means Chansey and Amnesia Snorlax wall you, and no Thunderbolt means Slowbro walls you.


    Uncommon
    Barrier: I've never seen anyone besides myself run this, but I think it's a really good option on Mewtwo. It shuts down any physical counter on offense while giving you a massive advantage in PP stall wars. The downside is that Mewtwo becomes very limited in its attacking PP, which limits your ability to play aggressively.

    Questionable: these moves may have some value but generally aren't worth it.

    Rest: OK, this one is in place of Recover rather than one of the pick two slots. Excellent means of wasting turns in PP stall wars and it clears status. Whether you actually want status cleared is another question and there's also the fact that conceding that many free turns is never a good thing.

    Blizzard: Mewtwo's most powerful coverage option. There are some situations when this can come in handy, but the greatly reduced PP is really bad.

    Thunder Wave: Against anything that isn't Mewtwo, you're better off attacking or boosting.

    Physical Attacks: Most Pokemon in Ubers are very physically bulky, so Mewtwo's Attack stat isn't quite good enough to make it work. If I had to pick a physical attack, I guess Hyper Beam could sneak some surprise KOs, but it bears significant opportunity cost. Submission and Thunderbolt are effective against Chansey and Slowbro teams but is suboptimal otherwise. Everything else is terrible. Self-Destruct may seem alluring for taking out opposing Mewtwo, but it only deals 52-61%, and you're sacrificing your Mewtwo, making it a generally awful option


    Mewtwo
    - Amnesia
    - Recover
    - Ice Beam
    - Psychic / Thunderbolt

    Other Comments

    The funny thing is that despite being so fat, Mewtwo tends to be played as if it's frail, because it's just so important that risking it to early-game Pokemon like Snorlax or Ice-type attacks from Jynx isn't worth it when you should have plenty of other stuff to handle that. Never let Mewtwo take unnecessary Ice-type attacks, as frozen Mewtwo often means you lose the game. Likewise, just because it can deal with things like Snorlax, doesn't mean it should, since you never want to risk an Explosion that does a ton of damage.
    mark this as done after you implement my check
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  10. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    Ortheore

    please implement the gp check
     
  11. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Done, although I edited my content on the PP stalling paragraph a little because I wasn't satisfied with what I had there- didn't mention Mew, and the sentence at the end was really weird
     

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