RBY OU Kangaskhan [GP Ready]

Kangaskhan
Type: Normal
Stats: 105 | 95 | 80 | 40 | 90

Introduction

Like many other Normals in 1U, Kangaskhan is outclassed by both Tauros and Snorlax, meaning it can be difficult to fit into a team since it works sort of similarly to them. However, Kangaskhan’s advantage over third choice Normals is that it has a good physical bulk, meaning it can have a better mid-game utility than for example Persian that you usually want to keep unrevealed for the endgame. It can switch into Body Slams thanks to its Normal type. Persian is usually a better choice as a third physical attacker though, given that it outspeeds a bigger portion of the tier and that it has access to Slash. On the other hand, Kangaskhan’s Hyper Beam hits harder and it packs Earthquake. Kangaskhan has some things to offer of its own, but should always be used alongside Snorlax and Tauros since there’s no reason to use it over them. It’s not easy to make an efficient use of, it needs a lot of support : you notably want it to face exclusively paralysed pokemon since it’s completely crippled by paralysis itself, but it can be a decent wallbreaker.

Standard

- Body Slam
- Hyper Beam
- Earthquake
- Counter / Surf

Set Details

Body Slam is your main STAB and is the move you should be spamming in general. It does some good damage and has a 30% chance of paralysing non Normal types. Hyper Beam finishes off weakened pokemon. Earthquake takes care of Gengar, is the best move to scout for Counter, and hits Rocks for super effective damage in case you don’t run Surf. Surf, on the other hand, 2HKOs them. Counter is useful against other physical attackers, but is usually expected on a pokemon such as Kangaskhan, so you have to use it carefully. You can use the possibility of you having Counter during mindgames against your opponent even if you have Surf as long as you haven’t revealed it.

Other Options

Substitute is actually a decent option on Kangaskhan, notably to go up against Reflect Chansey. Having 413 HP means Kangaskhan’s Subs have more than 100 HP, making Chansey use 2 Seismic Toss to break them. This allows Kangaskhan to spam Body Slam whilst having a good 17.6% crit rate to break Chansey. Thunder is an option too for Cloyster and Slowbro despite Kangaskhan’s poor special, but the accuracy can be annoying at times and both can reply by doing heavy damage too.

Checks and Counters

Nothing completely likes switching into Kangaskhan’s Body Slam : it does good damage, can paralyse non Normals, and Normal types don’t have a great match-up against it given its physical bulk and the possibility of it having counter. Snorlax can switch in but can’t really do better than trading if it doesn’t have Reflect or Counter, plus as previously said it has to be aware of Counter itself. Otherwise, Kangaskhan is usually 2HKO’d by STAB special attacks, meaning Cloyster and Lapras can switch in and force it out or hurt it bad, but they both dislike getting paralysed. Slowbro is also a possibility and doesn’t mind getting paralysed as much. Exeggutor 2HKOs with Psychic half of the time and doesn’t always die to the combination of a critical hit Body Slam + Hyper Beam. It can also paralyse Kangaskhan. Starmie can be a switch-in but it has to be careful of both critical hits annd paralysis. All of these pokemon highly prefer going up against it rather than switching into it. Other pokemon such as Zapdos or Alakazam can go up against it one on one if you have no other option since they both outspeed and 2HKO but they both take the risk to get crippled. Zapdos can come in for free if you predict Earthquake well too. Paralysing Kangaskhan makes it easier to handle since everything now outspeeds it and can threat it with big damage.

 

Very interesting the way you approach Khan tbh, it differs from how I've always thought of it. You seem to think of it as a Tauros-lite that you can afford to use as a midgame player due to its stats and the fact that it's a lot more expendable than Tauros. I've always thought of it as a secondary sweeper with Counter being its distinguishing niche. Overall it's probably somewhere in the middle, like as games progress they tend to get more physical which suits Khan, but being a fast normal with lots of midgame opportunities is pretty distinctive, since every other fast normal is either frail or Tauros (too important)

Bunch of random notes and comparisons, may not be necessary to include but I thought I'd leave them here.
Khan's physical bulk is slightly better than Tauros', while its special bulk is slightly worse than Persian's.
Snorlax Hyper Beam vs. Kangaskhan: 199-235 (48.1 - 56.9%) -- 91.7% chance to 2HKO
Snorlax Hyper Beam vs. Tauros: 178-210 (50.4 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Lapras Blizzard vs. Tauros: 159-187 (45 - 52.9%) -- 27.7% chance to 2HKO
Lapras Blizzard vs. Persian: 164-193 (49.2 - 57.9%) -- 98% chance to 2HKO
Lapras Blizzard vs. Kangaskhan: 211-249 (51 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Kangaskhan's EQ will almost always 3HKO Golem (something like 96%), while that's not the case for Rhydon (40% to 3HKO). This is purely damage rolls though, I haven't considered crits.

 

Well it can be useful both mid and late game. I just feel like if you want a secondary sweeper for the endgame Persian might be a better bet (ties with starmie/hurts para'd zam lead better/needs a bit less para support/has better chances against Tauros since Tauros does actually good against Kanga, Blizzard hits harder than Bslam and gets around Counter, 2 Blizzard + Beam do the job, and the fact that you're outspeeding means that Blizzard crit can be really nice, whereas if you crit Persian with Body Slam it "only" allows you to forget the possibility of your opponent catching the Beam with smth else but you can still lose your Tauros)
By running Kanga over Persian you pretty much give up some endgame utility for more midgame utility(/possibilities). The fact of not having to keep it completely hidden like Persian (keeping both Tauros and Persian hidden gives you less room to play, although you can be a bit looser with Tauros in some particular spots if you run both), and the fact that it can actually decently check some stuff are what makes it usuable imo.

 

Have you calculated with crits and all? Because I doubt that this is true, Starmie always lives Body Slam + Hyper Beam from Kangaskhan if neither crit:

Kangaskhan Body Slam vs. Starmie: 99-117 (30.6 - 36.2%) -- 53.6% chance to 3HKO
Kangaskhan Hyper Beam vs. Starmie: 174-205 (53.8 - 63.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

So it does 322 damage max, while Starmie has 323 HP.

 

Yea my mistake I don't know what happened, corrected it

 

Also if u wanna do a chain of calculations over different moves, might I recommend trying out sulcata's calculator (link) [do a calc and then hit the 'set hp' button )

 

*ctrl-f Mega Kick*
*not found*
Mega Kick is one of Kangaskhan's few draws over Tauros; should be mentioned at least in OO if not the main set.

 

This is pretty obvious to us but if the analysis is also aimed at new players there should be mentioned that Chansey has to be par before trying.

And Counter shouldn't be slashed but a "must", it's his niche otherwise Dodrio / Persian are straight up better in the role

 

I like the Mega Kick mention by m9m, nice spot.
I disagree with Counter being a must. Dodrio does not outclass it, simply because it is walled by Rocks, while Kanga gets EQ and Surf to hit them plus boltbeam weakness. Persian does not outclass entirely either imo, since bulk and being able to hit Gengar is worth something you know...
I know you probably did not mean outclassed (you did not write outclassed), but idk, Counter is an option to differentiate it from TAUROS (as is Mega Kick), not from the other two, since it differenciates itself enough from them by not being walled by either of their walls.

 

Persian I see (well, aside from Kanga learning Earthquake), but Dodrio's reaching a bit far. Kangaskhan's somewhat specially fragile, but not to anywhere near the same extent as Dodrio (the only OU 'mon that doesn't 2HKO Dodrio with standard sets is Slowbro, and a third of the tier threatens cold OHKO).

 

What i meant was outclassed at the specific role, Kangaskhan even if bulkier shares the problems of Dodrio and Persian: he shouldn't (as long as you can) switch on anything different from Hyper Beam. He needs double swiches to work no matter if Dodrio is 2hkoed or even ohkoed, it's about making the optimal moves. When 90% par lead Alakazam is about to switch and you can double your normal, Dodrio is clearly the better wallbreaker (even better than Snorlax because Chansey can't block). Persian is a whole different role and we all agree.

Rhydon/Kangaskhan are not better than Zapdos because he gets hard walled, so i don't see why that should be an argument at all. When we talk of wallbreakers Dodrio is the better of the two, avoiding the bad match ups is another story.

My opinion on Kangaskhan is pretty bad, he's not that bulky, no recovery, not a super good attacker... it's an average awful copy of Tauros, at least Dodrio and Persian has at least one quality over Tauros.

 

The vast majority of these statements are misleading: Kangaskhan is not meant to be using some moves Tauros/Snorlax don't have to be on your team. It's worse than them no matter what you use (hence, you will use all 3 of them), so you use what makes you comfortable in first place rather than for the sake of it being able to do something the other two can't.
Snorlax learns both Mega Kick and Surf and they're extremely rare (OO moves for both, may slash Surf for Kangaskhan as its Blizzard is just too weak and mention Blizzard as OO) - if anything Counter is the interesting move, and it's synergic with Amnesialax, which is a pokemon that lures HBs.
Snorlax doesn't use Mega Kick and it's a better user for it due to Rest/Selfdestruct making it resilient to TWave - MK is a high variance move which looks almost specific for Chansey and Snorlax (I mean, CH Mega Kick enables a 2HKO punch on Snorlax, so it's the only matchup I can see it being the go-to move unconditionally, but even there you need to hit and crit).

If anything, Surf competes with Earthquake for a slot: they're both specific moves (one is specific for GolDon and the other is pseudo-specific for Gengar/Counter users and maybe is good vs Jolteon once in a blue moon).

Kangaskhan can't be compared with Dodrio/Persian either, because Dodrio has an hard counter AND it's extremely frail anyway as others already stated (if anything, Dodrio is in competition with Zapdos and it loses by a wide margin); Persian, other than having an hard counter too, doesn't have access to real CHs and paraslams.
Actually, Dodrio can be a great midgame threat switching into Chansey or para'd Zam lead sometimes (which Zapdos isn't), but TWave reads as game over and you're revealing it early at your own risk - if we're talking about the single game, I can see it being different than Zapdos but it's still very different from Kangaskhan and a pokemon of his own kind anyway.

These pokemon are clearly not assimilable and Persian definitely has the best shot at making it into a RBY OU team due to its speed alone: Kangaskhan makes your S4 team weak to special attacks so it can either be a 6th pokemon supporting a lax variant which is good vs those threats or it really asks for a dedicated build that I'd start by dropping Exeggutor.

TL;DR: use Slam/Beam/Earthquake/Counter, I'd slash
Body Slam (Mega Kick)
Hyper Beam
Earthquake/ Surf
Counter (Surf, Mega Kick)