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ADV OU (OverUsed) Jolteon [GP Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Cowboy Dan, Jan 15, 2016.

  1. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Jolteon [​IMG]
    Type: Electric
    Stats: 65 | 65 | 60 | 110 | 95 | 130
    Abilities: Volt Absorb

    Introduction

    Jolteon is an interesting Pokemon in this tier. It has a solid niche as a somewhat defensively sound Electric type, being one of 2 with the ability to free itself from Dugtrio. Its 110 base Special Attack and 130 base Speed make it stand out as a solid late game cleaner. Thanks to its ability, Volt Absorb, combined with decent Special Defense and amazing Speed, it can act as a solid offensive pivot against a number of special attackers including Gengar, Zapdos, and Starmie. With the right move set it can also take on Pokemon such as Raikou and opposing Jolteon. While its movepool isn't great, it does have some interesting options such as Baton Pass which allows it to rack up tempo quite effectively for the rest of the team.

    Sets

    Baton Pass


    Jolteon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Thunderbolt
    -Baton Pass
    -Hidden Power Ice / Hidden Power Grass / Toxic
    -Roar / Substitute / Toxic / Wish / Thunder Wave

    Set Details

    This is the standard set for Jolteon. Thunderbolt is its main STAB, allowing it to hit quite hard against anything not named Blissey, Snorlax or Regice that doesn't resist it. Baton Pass is the move that makes Jolteon unique. It allows Jolteon to escape Dugtrio, as well as rack up spikes damage and tempo by Baton Passing on switches to its counters. The third move slot is for coverage. Hidden Power Ice allows Jolteon to kill Pokemon such as Salamence and Flygon while also doing a nice chunk to Celebi. Hidden Power Grass can be used instead to threaten Swampert however. This is particularly useful when attempting to pass Substitutes as Swampert can often run a PHazing move. Toxic can also be used as most of the things hit by either Hidden Power are also crippled by Toxic, however it is a bit more slow paced. Roar is a great option in the last slot as it allows Jolteon to abuse Spikes to a greater degree. It also turns it into a decent answer to Calm Mind Raikou. Substitute is the old standard and is still great for passing substitutes to dangerous Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Metagross and Heracross in the face of the special walls that Jolteon attracts. Toxic can also be used alongside a Hidden Power, allowing Jolteon to easily lure in Pokemon resistant to the chosen Hidden Power and nail them with Poison. Wish is an interesting move on Jolteon as it allows it to heal its team mates as well as itself. Jolteon's lack of bulk may make this set seem undesirable, but the fact that it draws in a number of passive Pokemon can make it a very effective Wish passer. Thunder Wave is also useful due to Jolteon's ability to outspeed most offensive threats, and therefore cripple them before they can accomplish anything.

    These HP EVs allow Jolteon to survive Hydro Pump from offensive Starmie after 3 layers of Spikes and sand. This allows Jolteon to switch into Starmie in a pinch. Furthermore, the investment also allows it to survive Aerodactyl's Rock Slide, which makes the speed tie a little bit more favorable as Aerodactyl is forced to lock itself into either Double Edge or Earthquake to have a good shot of winning the match up. Speed is maxed, as Jolteon's speed tier is one of the its main niches, and it allows it to go for speed ties against opposing Aerodactyl and Jolteon if necessary. The rest is thrown in to Special Attack to maximize damage output.

    As far as team mates, Jolteon finds itself very comfortable on Spikes Based offensive teams, due to its ability to act as a great Spikes abuser, late game cleaner and offensive pivot. As a result Pokemon such as Skarmory, Gengar and Tyranitar which are often found on these teams, and set up residual damage sources make great partners. Furthermore Jolteon appreciates heavy hitting physical attackers such as Metagross, Snorlax, Heracross and Tyranitar as previously mentioned, as they can take advantage of Jolteon's ability to Baton Pass out of incoming special walls. Dugtrio is another great partner as it can take advantage of Baton Pass to grant it free switches into Pokemon such as Celebi. Finally Pokemon that can attract Electric attacks for Jolteon to come in to and gain health, such as Gyarados and Cloyster also pair nicely.

    Other Options

    Despite its seemingly mediocre move pool Jolteon actually has a wide range of other options to make use of. Agility can allow Jolteon to Baton Pass Speed boosts to dangerous Pokemon such as Marowak and Rhydon, as Jolteon does a good job of threatening the Tier's most common PHazers, however it receives heavy competition in this role from Zapdos due to its Spikes immunity and superior bulk. Stat boosting berries such as Petaya, Salac or Liechi can come in handy when passing Substitute to make another member of the team that much more dangerous. Petaya has the added benefit of being useful to Jolteon. They do get get Jolteon worn down a lot faster though which detracts from its pivoting abilities.

    Checks and Counters

    Jolteon is not difficult to stop offensively. The Tier's main special walls, Blissey, Snorlax and Regice, easily shrug off its attacks. Furthermore any decently bulky physical attacker, such as Tyranitar or Metagross, can check it and force it out with the threat of Earthquake. Celebi is another good counter to Jolteon. If it is running Hidden Power Grass then Jolteon is hard walled, and even if running Hidden Power Ice, Celebi isn't too afraid of it. The combination of Flygon and Swampert can handle Jolteon as the former will handle Hidden Power Grass variants while the latter can handle Hidden Power Ice variants. Both have to watch out for Toxic however. If using up two slots to counter Electrics isn't preferrable, Camerupt is a good option as it is neutral to both Hidden Powers. Porygon2 can also make an interesting counter thanks to Tracing Volt Absorb however it does not appreciate Toxic. The difficulty with countering Jolteon is that with Baton Pass it can turn many of its counters into set up bait for its team mates. Therefore if using one of these counters, prediction is necessary not to be continually on the back foot against a Jolteon player. There are ways to stop the Baton Pass shenanigans however, Roar Jolteon can check itself and make it very difficult for opposing Jolteon to ever get off a substitute. Similarly Roar Raikou can perform the same role, however it is trapped by Dugtrio, and will just be blown around by opposing Roar Jolteon. Finally Steelix is probably the best counter to Jolteon as it can take any attack Jolteon can throw at it as well as Toxic, and it has the ability to use Roar, meaning Jolteon will never pass off a substitute while it is alive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  2. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    For Bulk Triangles used 8 HP / 72 SpD in SPL, it helps vs Gengar / Raikou / Zap. Wish / TWave should be on the main set as Jolt can pull both off pretty successfully with its high speed and threat factor, Wish is especially underrated as it can help certain offensive squads stick around longer vs a bulky TSS team. Also cut the mention of dropping speed, Jolt should never do that as the speed tie with Aero / opposing Jolt is pretty crucial. Speaking of which, I think there's a spread somewhere around smogon that allows Jolt to live a RS from Aero while maintaining the kill meaning the speed tie isn't such a risk, will have to dig it out though. Lastly add P2 to checks (it actually is lol, just trace Volt Absorb and win). These are all nitpicks tho, overall really well done.
     
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  3. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Yeah i just went with the max/max spread because jolteon's evs are kinda team dependent I find and that's just the most general one, if you know what triangle's evs do though i'll add them in. I'll add wish and twave to the main set, although with those two moves added jolt has quite a few slashes that can produce some pretty different sets. Do you think it's worth having more than one set listed? It's hard for me to say because they're similar in roles, EVs, partners and stuff but pretty different in practice. I'll also add p2 to checks and counters, completely slipped my mind. The comment on speed was really meant more as a warning to never go below dugtrio's speed so I can make that more clear. I do think there are instances where the extra evs from speed can matter more than the speed tie (there's only so much you can drop out of SpA) which is why I added that but i agree that max speed should be run the vast majority of the time.
     
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  4. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    Maybe.......that's tough though b/c Jolt can do a lot of things, TBolt+Wish+BP, or it can pass Subs instead of Wishes (it can even do both on the same set and it's also possible to fit Protect in). Then there's the Roar+Toxic set meant to scout and shuffle on Spikes teams, and the Toxic+BP set that plays similarly to Zapdos except it handles Gar/Kou/Star and opposing Zap better. Honestly every Jolt sets plays a little differently and appreciates different support because it can do different roles, a lot of which are pretty underrated......for now keep it as one set although I'd like to get others' opinion. If you're doing it as separate sets than Passer, Roar, and Toxic+BP should be the sets.

    Speed still should not be cut in any circumstance, if you're short of SpA then you probably threw too much in bulk which while handy against certain mons should not be buffed too far as that takes away from Jolteon's main purpose. If you really want to keep the mention though then I suppose might as well, as Jolt usually pairs well enough with Aero checks which is the sole reason to run Max Speed.

    For partners on the set add Cune, it appreciates Bliss being worn down / Toxiced and also Subs / Wishes passed while luring Electric attacks from like Zapdos pretty well.

    Also Triangles ran 8 HP + 72 SpD in SPL, add in 24 Def to ensure that Aero RS doesn't OHKO, there's probably something more efficient but I cba to find it atm. That's all I got.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2016
  5. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Ok added all the stuff. I think I found what Triangle's Spread was meant to do, either that or lucky coincidence. Leaving it as one set for now as I'm really not sure how to separate it effectively it can really mix and match a lot of moves.

    Edit: Found a spread that does all the stuff mentioned by Ninjax (hydro pump from starmie in spikes and sand + aero's rock slide) for fewer EVs so I put that as the main spread.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2016
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  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    should magnet get a mention in OO?
     
  7. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    I've never used it personally, I don't think it would be that amazing though, jolteon isn't like zapdos who just destroys stuff on switch ins with that huge special attack and jolteon is quite useful as a pivot so it really appreciates that leftovers recovery.
     
  8. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    Did some calcs a while ago and can confirm: even two Magnet boosted TBolts from Jolt get tanked by 252/0 Tyranitar and Metagross while Magnet boosted (Modest) Zapdos 2HKOes both, while Zap's natural bulk means it doesn't need Lefties as much as Jolt (which is frailer as has trouble sticking around). I mean Zap really does appreciate Lefties to help play around CMSpam / CB Meta that doesn't click Rock Slide etc., but Magnet TBolt is sooo scary that it can occasionally ignore it (another example of this is on Agility Zapdos which really appreciates the buffed damage output in the lategame. It could get mentioned as the power buff can be handy (esp with Spikes support it can turn like a 50% chance to OHKO into a guaranteed), but yeah the cons should be outlined clearly.
     
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  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Mention in the comments in the set details re: skarm that its ground immunity / ability to check pert helps too, and that it also draws electric attacks, or smth

    :3
     
  10. wyc2333

    wyc2333 Member

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    now i think twave should be slashed over roar in the fourth slot. hp grass should be slashed over hp ice in the third slot. maybe twave can even be a given
    Jolteon @ Leftovers
    Trait: Volt Absorb
    EVs: 76 HP / 180 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    -Thunderbolt
    -Baton Pass / Roar
    -Hidden Power Grass / Hidden Power Ice
    -Thunder Wave / Roar
     

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