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ADV OU (OverUsed) Jirachi [WIP]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by ThrashNinjax, Feb 4, 2016.

  1. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    Jirachi
    Typing: Steel / Psychic
    Stats: 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100 / 100
    Ability: Serene Grace

    Overview:
    Effective CMer
    Can outstall or attack
    Wish support helps with Spikes
    Bulky Pivot and Gengar check
    Rock Resist

    Sets:
    Superachi (Offensive Calm Mind)

    Jirachi @ Leftovers / Lum Berry
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Grass
    - Fire Punch / Ice Punch

    CM+3 Atks Boosts up and demolishes
    Psych for main STAB, Atks for coverage
    EVs for Speed/Damage
    Prediction helps, 'CM and win' is a myth
    Checks to TTar/Lax/Aero + Blissey/Dug removal

    Wish+Calm Mind

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 248 HP / 228 Def / 32 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Calm Mind
    - Psychic
    - Wish
    - Fire Punch / Thunderbolt / Thunder / Reflect / Toxic / Protect.....

    WishCM sets up on Bliss+non-EQ Lax
    Psych for STAB, Wish for healing+Support
    FP burns and keeps TTar from checking as well as hurting Steels, million other options though.
    Speed outruns max TTar while Bulk is used to set-up
    Mag support helpful if not running FP, checks to TTar and Aero useful
    Most BO teams appreciate Wish to handle Spikes

    Specially Defensive - AstaRachi

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 240 HP / 80 Atk / 68 Def / 120 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Fire Punch / Psychic
    - Protect
    - Wish

    WishTect heals team while checking PhysOff
    BSlam+FP threaten status and keep enemy at bay
    Protect+Wish scouts while healing team
    Useful pivot. Checks Mence / Lax / Electrics / Aero
    Needs help to handle CMSpam teams+heavier offense

    EVs tank things - live Aero EQ while breaking 0/0 Raikou sub.

    Created by Astamatitos and popularised by Danilo

    PhysDef Rachi

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 32 SpD / 20 Spd
    Bold Nature
    - Toxic
    - Protect
    - Fire Punch
    - Wish

    Like AstaRachi but meant to take Physical hits.
    Toxic punishes a lot of teams by crippling Pert, wearing down Tar and forcing Blissey to switch
    Fire Punch is damage output on Skarmory and hits Steels that don't get Toxiced.
    WishTect keeps you alive.
    List whatever 24 SpA / 32 SpD / 20 Spd do

    FearRachi - Offensive Wish


    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    EVs: 224 HP / 248 SpA / 36 Spd
    Modest Nature
    - Psychic
    - Fire Punch
    - Hidden Power Grass
    - Wish

    Offensive Wish set that hammers offensive teams while supporting with Wish
    Superachi's coverage to lay pain on things.
    Wish can be passed to support team in more drawn-out battles.
    EVs outrun max speed Tar and everything that creeps that benchmark. Rest are for bulk / pain

    Mixed Jirachi

    Jirachi @ Leftovers / Lum Berry / BrightPowder
    EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature
    - Body Slam / Mud Slap
    - DynamicPunch
    - Fire Punch
    - Hidden Power Grass

    Mixed attacker
    DPunch bops Tyranitar, Snorlax and Blissey
    Body Slam threatens para on most things
    Fire Punch hits steels and threatens burn
    HP Grass ensures Pert doesnt wall
    Thunder is an option for Suicune and Milotic as well as hitting Skarmory / Metagross harder.
    Psychic is a stab that allows you to kill Gengar

    Lum Berry deals with random status attempts from Gengar per se
    Brightpowder allows you to cheese dug and revenge killers

    Needs spikes to get crucial kills on celebi for one thing
    Most floating enemies (mence zapdos flygon) can beat it assuming that body slam doesnt para, so a pert / aero / something to answer them is appreciated

    Choice Band

    Jirachi @ CHOICE BAND
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Doom Desire
    - Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    - Shadow Ball
    - Body Slam / DynamicPunch

    Choice Band Inquisition
    Doom Desire ensures a kill should TTar / Lax / Bliss switch in
    HP Fighting melts said switches
    Shadow Ball melts Gengar and hits Metagross / Jirachi
    Body Slam threatens para and is a good attack to click.
    DPunch and HP Ground are options to hit Meta / opposing Jirachi better while guaranteeing a kill on TTar.

    Other Options:
    Mud Slap n_n to beat lastmons and cheese Dug
    UDRachi - Sub / Wish / CM / Fire Punch. Better set-up opportunities but relies on Fire Punch for an attack.
    Rain Dance + Water Pulse

    Checks and Counters:
    TTar+Aero hammer
    Gengar can sleep
    Lax+Bliss wall more offensive variants
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    what do the evs on the specially defensive rachi do? Also you could/should probably name it after nilo since it was his innovation and it's a really cool set
     
  3. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    Idk, I think defensive ones do something vs Zapdos Tbolt/MixMence FB something like that. Atk EVs ensure that BSlam breaks 0/0 Raikou's sub. Will run some calcs but I'll stick with this in the meanwhile, also will name it after Nilo as well as allude to its origins in the DPP SpDef set.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    only requires 32 atk to do that maybe try and work out what else it's for
     
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    apparently reflect is a thing
     
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  6. Paraplegic

    Paraplegic Member

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    love typhlito
     
  7. ThrashNinjax

    ThrashNinjax Lets take to the Skies Host Emeritus

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    It's mentioned already on the WishCM set, long with the half a billion other options that have been used...
     
  8. PhilosopherKing

    PhilosopherKing Member

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    As a suggestion, I believe it would be extremely insightful if a more detailed explanation was provided for the role of each set on a team and what partners or strategies help a particular set to do well. Choice Band Jirachi is relatively obscure, so it would be cool to learn more about how to use such a set effectively.
     
  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Yeah this analysis is still incomplete as Ninjax needs to fill out a lot more of the detail
     
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  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    call it AstaRachi not AstamatitosRachi

    mention Thunder on the CM Wish set

    mention Rain Dance in OO (pair with Thunder)

    UDrachi in OO (SubCM Wish Fire Punch)

    water pulse

    I'm not sure if mud slap deserves OO mention

    definitely dont slash mud slap on any set
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  11. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    Reflect is a thing, I don't really think RD Thunder is though offhand, water pulse is like a weird move that covers tar, while dropping pert coverage; So basically a bad HP:Grass except for confusion I suppose. Mud Slap sounds out there but I suppose it is a way to stop last mons from getting out of hand. That UD set actually has very good chances of burning key stuff like pert/tar considering how bulky it is. Thunder on CM Wish is definitely worth a mention.

    Mention that the attack Evs on Asta rachi break Raikou subs iirc. Might be worth providing an alternate EV spread for jirachi that can tank Jolly CB+ohko with +1 Psychic if possible(iirc there is one, but I might be wrong, ignore if i am). Seem to have got everything else I think?
     
  12. Deadboots

    Deadboots Resident Lethargarian Host Emeritus

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    The astarachi evs here are not correct - they add up to 516. As previously stated, 80 evs is not necessary to break raikou's sub. It's actually possible to ev this to live adamant duggie while still investing heavily in spD (which I would argue is more valuable in the current meta, unless you have absolutely no other raikou checks): the spread is 248hp/128def/132spD/sassy or calm (should double check that bslam still 2hkos dug with a calm nature). The minimum investment to break 0/0 or 4/0 raikou's sub is 36 evs (DA got 32; I'll calc again when I get a chance to). you can still invest enough to survive jolly dug with this attack investment, which is probably what the def evs in the op's spread are for.

    EDIT: calm does not guarantee the 2hko on duggie, so sassy should be the preferred option if this is a concern. The minimum def investment for survival of jolly dug's eq is 36 evs, meaning that the investment to survive aero's is even less. 68 has to be for some weird benchmark involving spikes or a multiple hit KO as it does not guarantee survival vs adamant dug or cb/+1 mence/metagross/tar. 32 atk evs will indeed break an 80hp raikou sub.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2017
  13. doom desire misses noSTAB

    doom desire misses noSTAB Member

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    My name says it all. Choice Band is so bad in practice. Just use, uhh, Metagross?
     
  14. autumn leaves

    autumn leaves Member

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    cb metagross and jirachi do entirely different things, cb jira is amazing
     
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  15. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    Toxic/Fire Punch phys def needs a set; very popular
     
  16. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    offensive wish is never bold;

    Jirachi @ Leftovers
    Ability: Serene Grace
    EVs: 248 HP / 184 Def / 24 SpA / 32 SpD / 20 Spe
    Bold Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Wish
    - Protect
    - Toxic
    - Fire Punch

    phys def set
     
  17. doom desire misses noSTAB

    doom desire misses noSTAB Member

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    Don't get me wrong it's probably a fine set...Serene Grace / status shenanigans and durability wrapped into one, but...Man is this the world we live in where Jirachi users are going for 20% burn / 60% paralysis and not caring more about solid skill fundamentals of damage and being threatening with a STAB to work with? I can see the appeal of making some annoying to face Jirachi that doesn't die because Wish + Protect + sand immunity + good defenses and defensive typing are indeed things, and spreading status is a thing with Serene Grace at its disposal, but “sucking out” on things like Dugtrio (that’s what it feels like) and the proporting by good players on this being the reason as to why Jirachi needs to be higher in viability is beyond me. I don't like the notion of where you stay in to Fire Punch a Tyranitar with a Jirachi and expect to be rewarded, but it's what I see happening on replays a ridiculous amount of the time.

    Maybe I’m jaded and focused on consistent damage too much…rather than more luck-based strategies. Take this all in stride. Status is great if a team is not prepared correctly for it (no Natural Cure or Heal Bell), especally since I feel Rest is a big liability on anything anymore in the current meta.

    Also - main point of this post is to rant about CBrachi naturally!

    I don't see how giving choice band to something with only base 100 attack and no STAB attacks to work with is a good idea or "amazing". My thesis is that it is too weak / underwhelming, and what I have to say about the entry below:


    Jirachi @ CHOICE BAND
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    - Doom Desire
    - Hidden Power Fighting / Hidden Power Ground
    - Shadow Ball
    - Body Slam / DynamicPunch

    Choice Band Inquisition - ????? meaningless unless you are talking about the black metal band Inquisition lawl lawl lawl

    Doom Desire ensures a kill should TTar / Lax / Bliss switch in - Ensures a kill? How? 85% accuracy and let's just for the hell of it compare damage output to Metagross using Meteor Mash...



    Basis -when they hit, neutral hit for 252+ meta meteor mash compared to 252+ jira doom desire (doom desire damage is always neutral but never STAB affected):

    Result: Metagross is 1.53 to 1.54 times as strong when it hits with a neutral meteor mash than what Jirachi is when its doom desire hits. Do we speak of Metagross “ensuring kills” when this would clearly prove that point, out of any CB move in the game?


    And don't bash me for comparing to Metagross because sure no one switches the same pokes into Metagross like they do Jirachi, but Metagross can still get past physical walls with its physical attacks so that's saying a lot. (we've all seen the chinking away at Skarm with CB Meteor Mashes doing over 30% and the possibility of attack raises on top of that - or just "Houdini" exploding on it , 1 -shotting it. ) What I would also like to illustrate is that even on 2x resists, Metagross mash (if it hits) would be at 76.5-77% the strength of Jirachi's doom desire (if it hit) – that’s not terrible.


    The damage not having a type is probably more of a pro than a con. And while this signature move has another interesting mechanic of hitting a few turns later, there are so many disadvantages compared to advantages with this when you have a choice band that I can't even...In general I want to know the result of a move the turn I use it, so I can use the next turns more effectively with a known outcome! It can't even Crit or be used multiple times in a row!!! READ: you are basically forced to switch after using it, so it's not doing clean up duty like a lot of CB'ers are capable of doing.


    NO STAB, hits through Protect though - big whoop


    Doom Desire (move) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia


    HP Fighting melts said switches - melts lol ok, but I think 70 base power non-STAB is underwhelming against the 2x weak things


    Shadow Ball melts Gengar and hits Metagross / Jirachi - melts again, really? yea cuz Gengar is frail. the "hits Metagross / Jirachi" is a subtle comment I'll leave it at that


    Body Slam threatens para and is a good attack to click - yes it does threaten para, but no, it is not a good attack to click, non-STAB Normal attacks are terrible i don't care what might be switching in thinking it's walling one thing but instead gets body slammed cuz it's not all that great.


    DPunch and HP Ground are options to hit Meta / opposing Jirachi better while guaranteeing a kill on TTar. - HP ground is too weak, DPunch is cool but 50% accuracy is not what I would want to expect consistency using, but at least if you use it then by this point you might realize the mixed attacker is better than choice band, no??? wth
     
  18. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    If you want to make a serious point, bold underline italics is not how to do it.

    no comment on the substance of your post, cbrachi is not a mon I use, but will say that Ninjax's writeups aren't complete, it's in a bullet point form that probably covers some important points and may contain lines that are just there for humour at this stage. And my understanding is the main advantage of CBRachi is that you can use doom desire in combination with another attacker (e.g. Aero) and you can use it to force a KO. One scenario I remember it being used in was when an Aerodactyl was against a Zapdos, and it naturally can rock slide there because if the opp goes to their rock resist (I think was a pert?) it does really heavy damage against them, letting u punish and chip the mon u need to break to clean. But yea I'm no expert on this mon/set.
     
  19. autumn leaves

    autumn leaves Member

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    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
    eden and Disaster Area like this.
  20. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Three years late, but nobody explained this, so:

    The trick with Blissey, and to a lesser degree Snorlax, is that Doom Desire calculates damage on the original target. Ergo, if Blissey switches into Doom Desire something is taking 350+ damage in a couple of turns. Obviously, Blissey itself could tank that, but you have time to switch out and use another attack simultaneously with Doom Desire hitting; this should be one that 2HKOs Blissey. At that point there is no way the opponent can avoid a KO (unless DD misses).
     

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