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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Hypno [GP Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Enigami, Dec 6, 2015.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Hypno [​IMG]
    Type: Psychic
    Stats: 85 | 73 | 70 | 115 | 67


    Introduction

    Hypno is largely comparable to Exeggutor, being a slow powerful Psychic-type with decent bulk and the ability to both sleep and paralyze opponents. Its main advantages compared to Exeggutor are outspeeding Exeggutor and Lapras, Thunder Wave and its lack of Ice and Flying weaknesses. It is primarily used as an alternative, albeit usually subpar lead. It can also be used over Exeggutor outside of the lead position, but its lack of Ground resistance makes its team more vulnerable to Golem and Rhydon and not having Explosion makes it reliant on luck to break Special walls.

    Sets

    Lead / Support

    Hypno
    -Hypnosis
    -Thunder Wave
    -Psychic
    -Rest / Seismic Toss

    Set Details

    Hypnosis is mandatory, as without it (or gimmicks such as Meditate or Headbutt) it is directly outclassed by Alakazam. First priority should be to use Hypnosis and put something to sleep. Thunder Wave spreads paralysis after something has been put to sleep and is its main draw in the lead position over Jynx. Psychic is its STAB and primary attack. Rest gives it recovery and can use it to wall Pokemon such as Alakazam, Chansey and Exeggutor. Seismic Toss does consistent damage and can potentially break paralyzed Psychics that resists its STAB if they are unlucky with full paralysis.

    Other Options

    Counter can give Hypno the advantage against Snorlax and Tauros, allowing them to be KO'd if they use Body Slam by 2 or 1 following Psychics respectively making it much more likely for Hypno to win 1v1, or absorb Hyper Beam and then KO Tauros or severely weaken Snorlax. It can also discourage Alakazam from using Seismic Toss against it. Hyper Beam could be used to surprise a weakened Chansey and 3HKO Alakazam and Jynx when paired with Seismic Toss, but it lacks the utility of Hypno's other moves and is not a strong option. Meditate can be used with Reflect/Rest/Body Slam or Hyper Beam to build up boosts and sweep, however it is heavily dependent on luck to pull off. While very unreliable, Headbutt combined with Thunder Wave can be annoying by attempting to abuse Full Paralysis and Headbutt's flinching chance to prevent slower opponents from even getting a chance to move.

    Checks and Counters

    Psychics with recovery and Chansey can sit in front of Hypno all day and wear it down until it is forced to Rest. Thanks to their enormous Special bulk and power, Articuno and Moltres can switch into and beat Hypno if RNG goes well for them, but between Full Paralysis, Special drops, critical hits and misses a lot of things can go wrong for them. Paralysis with luck can prevent a Hypno from Resting when its in danger of being KO'd. Strong physical attackers such was Snorlax and Tauros can 3HKO Hypno, threatening Hypno unless it it has Reflect. Ultimately, if nothing else it can be worn down until it uses Rest giving time for another Pokemon to set up on it or break it with critical hits.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2016
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Hypno NEEDS Psychic really.

    Hypnosis is mandatory on lead, and I think I'd even dare to call it mandatory all the time in 1U, since it's only used over Egg really as non-lead (works okay, but certainly not recommended). Thunder Wave is really worthwhile, and then Stoss/Rest/Counter is generally your last slot. Tbh I think Twave is really the main proper draw over Jynx. Access to Counter and Stoss are its main things over egg, but Rest is ok too, to annoy opposing Psychic-types and I mean it lacks the Zapdos weakness of Egg in exchange for no ground resist. Also the lack of Ice weakness is kinda huge, but really not being weak to zapdos drill peck is one of my fave reasons to ever consider it.
     
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  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    There's the gimmick set of Body Slam/Meditate/Reflect/Rest, which is a complete set on its own rather than something to be done by half-measures (I guess you could use Hyper Beam instead of Body Slam). Otherwise, Hypnosis is absolutely mandatory because if you're not using Hypnosis or Meditate you should be running Alakazam instead.

    EDIT: The big issue with Hypno is that unlike Exeggutor it doesn't learn Explosion. That means it(s standard set) has Vaporeonitis. The worse stats and the less accuracy on its sleep move are to some extent mitigated by the lack of Ice/Flying weakness, but the Vaporeonitis is fatal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2015
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  4. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Last D rank is now Discussion Ready!
     
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Seismic Toss isn't that big an advantage over Exeggutor, because Alakazam and Jynx take very similar damage from Exeggutor's Egg Bomb/Double-Edge/Strength and Starmie takes more from Exeggutor's Mega Drain. Exeggutor has better things to do with its moveslots, certainly, but it can use those if you want it to. SToss is fine to put in the analysis, but I wouldn't call it one of "its main advantages compared to Exeggutor".

    I wouldn't really say Hypno has "good mixed bulk"; while its special bulk is certainly great, its physical bulk is rather disappointing. I mean, to pick out the OUs from Icy's list of HP*Defence:

    Cloyster 138774
    Golem 129954
    Slowbro 124974
    Lapras 119454
    Snorlax 119244
    Dragonite 110880
    Exeggutor 105324
    Zapdos 102644
    Tauros 101664
    Hypno 88774
    Starmie 86564
    Chansey 75924
    Jolteon 72594
    Gengar 70414
    Alakazam 58844
    Jynx 55944

    Hypno's definitely on the low side of the large gap between Starmie and Tauros, and it doesn't have instant recovery, so the only things that "really" have less physical bulk than Hypno are Jolteon, Jynx, and (barely) Alakazam (Gengar's a special case because it's immune to the most common physical type). Hypno's 3HKOed by Snorlax with Body Slam alone, to give an example, or EQ + EQ + Hyper Beam from Tauros, and has a 31% chance to be OHKOed by a Golem Explosion (Starmie has a 38% chance).

    Given the above, you probably need to append "or physical attacks" to this; if it doesn't have Reflect, Normal and Ground types all 3HKO cold (in fact, Rhydon, Tauros and Snorlax all have a small chance to 2HKO).

    Otherwise all the content looks fine to me.


    EDIT: oh, the thing about "lack of Ice weakness" could maybe be "lack of Ice and Flying weaknesses" since Zapdos exists and I've seen some people mention that as a reason to use it over Egg. Just floating the idea; obviously it matters a lot less than Ice weakness so I don't have a big issue with it being left off.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2016
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  6. GGFan

    GGFan Member

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    Headbutt is legit. Either that or the force is strong in 11-year-old ladder noobs.

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 18.9% of its health!

    Chansey is paralyzed! It can't move!
    Turn 11

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 16.8% of its health!

    Chansey flinched and couldn't move!
    Turn 12

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 17.6% of its health!

    Chansey flinched and couldn't move!
    Turn 13

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 17.8% of its health!

    Chansey flinched and couldn't move!
    Turn 14

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 18.5% of its health!

    Chansey used Soft-Boiled!
    Chansey restored its HP.
    Turn 15

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 18.2% of its health!

    Chansey flinched and couldn't move!
    Turn 16

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    A critical hit! Chansey lost 34.1% of its health!

    Chansey flinched and couldn't move!
    Turn 17

    The opposing Hypno used Headbutt!
    Chansey lost 7.8% of its health!

    Chansey fainted!
     
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  7. EB0LA

    EB0LA KING OF PP Member

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    Currently testing reflectHypno as a 6th.

    -Psychic
    -Thunder Wave
    -Reflect
    -Rest

    I feel this is worth a mention in oo. As this is basically a bulkier variant of the reflectAlakzam 6th slot. Also being Psychic only, it not really having any weaknesses is a strong +.
    Bringing this into light as there has been argument to drop Hypno down from D to E rank. I feel this Hypno is a very good variant to inflict paralysis on your opponent, while having enough bulk to survive many turns. It even beats Tauros in a fair 1v1. (Tauros would need 2 runner crits to kill it.)

    Also nothing without crits can really finish off this hypno:
    *Zapdos Thunderbolt vs. Hypno: 109-129 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 5.2% chance to 3HKO

    *Cloyster Blizzard vs. Hypno: 107-126 (28.6 - 33.7%) -- 0.4% chance to 3HKO

    *Victreebel Razor Leaf vs. Hypno on a critical hit: 105-124 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

    *Starmie Blizzard vs. Hypno: 78-92 (20.9 - 24.6%) -- guaranteed 5HKO

    Well.. beside these 2, but if they fail, then they're eating a paralysis, or wasting 8/8pp.
    *Jynx Blizzard vs. Hypno: 114-135 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO

    *Lapras Blizzard vs. Hypno: 114-135 (30.5 - 36.1%) -- 53.2% chance to 3HKO
    & only real problem would be surfBro.

    *Slowbro Psychic vs. Hypno: 38-45 (10.1 - 12%) -- possible 9HKO

    *Slowbro Surf vs. Hypno: 81-96 (21.7 - 25.7%) -- 1% chance to 4HKO

    Currently using this build around wrap, and have had pretty good success on the ladder so far, but need to test it a bit more vs. better players.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
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  8. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    It's not really any bulkier, because you need to 2HKO Zam but only 3HKO Hypno. Running the HP*Def product, it's 0.5% bulkier on the physical side and 30% less bulky on the special side.
    Uhhhhh, you know Slowbro can use Amnesia multiple times, right?

    +6 Slowbro Psychic vs. Hypno: 147 - 173 (39.4 - 46.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
    +6 Slowbro Psychic vs. -1 Hypno: 222 - 262 (59.5 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
     
  9. EB0LA

    EB0LA KING OF PP Member

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    Alakzam Vs. Hypno Base Stats:
    HP: 55 - 85
    DEF: 45 - 70
    SPC: 135 - 115
    SPD: 120 - 67

    So as demonstrated in the previous post. Everything spc has a difficult time 3hkoing it making it run in loops, wasting pp, or trading status. With reflect, it makes it very hard to even hit hypno with anything physical (bar Persian). Only major loss is that it is outsped by cloy & vic. It can also double switch after a loop, and cause havoc onto an opponent. This is a tanky/stally build (which spreads status), not a straight killer, as it can get walled by zam/mie/chansey, but with spc drops it will continue to spread status.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2018
  10. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    If by "everything" you mean "Recover users, Egg and Gar", then sure. Jynx/Lapras have a good chance as you've shown yourself (and there's also freeze as a possibility), Zapdos and Jolteon have a guaranteed 4HKO and high crit rates, Cloyster can Clamp for the kill, and Slowbro calmly sets up to +6 and 3HKOs with Psychic.

    And, moreover, all those things that have trouble 3HKOing Hypno have at least as much trouble 2HKOing Zam, so you should just run Zam and use Recover. Without Hypnosis or Meditate, Hypno is dominated in 1U.
     
  11. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    magic9mushroom not to mention Articuno:
    Articuno Blizzard vs. Hypno: 137-162 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    If Hypno didn't set up Reflect (which is very unlikely when using EB0LA's set), Blizz + Blizz + HB will always 3HKO:
    Articuno Hyper Beam vs. Hypno: 123-145 (32.9 - 38.8%) -- 99.8% chance to 3HKO

    Also, there's Ice Beam. Using Blizzard twice + Ice Beam will 3HKO as well:
    Articuno Ice Beam vs. Hypno: 109-129 (29.2 - 34.5%) -- 5.2% chance to 3HKO

    If Blizzard hits the lowest possible damage (137), Ice Beam itself has 59,7% of chance to 2HKO after Blizzard damage. If it happens to be to best damage, Ice Beam will always 2HKO after Blizzad. And whenever Articuno get a crit (even from Ice Beam), Blizzard+Ice Beam will always 2HKO it.

    Moltres also has a nice time against Hypno, but it doesn't like paralysis, as it cripples Fire Spin. Articuno doesn't enjoys TW as well, but it won't completely cripple it due to Agility (however, switching against unparalyzed Rocks won't be possible anymore).
     

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