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Pokémon Help for Competitive RBY on Cartridge/Virtual Console (WIP)

Discussion in 'Chat' started by Enigami, Nov 15, 2015.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Which version to get?
    Blue Version (US) or Green Version (Japan) if you want access to all Pokemon considered atleast somewhat viable for the main ruleset of competitive RBY, although through use of glitches all Pokemon can be obtained. Red Version loses Persian, Victreebel and Pinsir, Blue Version (Japan) loses Victreebel and Ninetales, and Yellow Version loses Jynx, Persian, Raichu and Weezing. The US Red and Blue versions have an item duplication glitch that can greatly accelerate prepping a Pokemon for competition, so if you are willing to abuse glitches those versions are the best to have. Pokemon Yellow has a method to obtain a glitch Pokemon that can enable Pokemon to learn moves they shouldn't, so if you want to obtain Surf Pikachu or Amnesia Psyduck and do not have access to Pokemon Stadium or trading, Pokemon Yellow is the only way to obtain them.
    Pokemon Red (All): Sandshrew, Sandslash, Vulpix, Ninetales, Meowth, Persian, Bellsprout, Weepinbell, Victreebel, Magmar, Pinsir, Mew
    Pokemon Blue (US) & Green (Japan): Ekans, Arbok, Oddish, Gloom, Vileplume, Mankey, Primeape, Growlithe, Arcanine, Scyther, Electabuzz, Mew
    Pokemon Blue (Japan): Ekans, Arbok, Vulpix, Ninetales, Mankey, Primeape, Bellsprout, Weepinbell, Victreebel, Electabuzz, Magmar, Mew
    Pokemon Yellow (All): Weedle, Kakuna, Beedrill, Ekans, Arbok, Raichu, Meowth, Persian, Koffing, Weezing, Jynx, Electabuzz, Magmar, Mew

    Fastest way to level up Pokemon?
    Rare Candy, which increases a Pokemon's level by 1. However, in RBY there is a very limited supply that cannot be replenished without the item duplication glitch in the US Red and Blue Versions. Without that glitch, battling the Elite 4.

    Where to get Mewtwo?
    After becoming the Pokemon Champion, Mewtwo is found at the end of Dark Cave to the north-west of Cerulean City. Mewtwo is banned from most RBY metagames, so it is not necessary to obtain.

    Where to get Mew?
    Mew is a Pokemon only obtainable from going to events in real life where they are distributing it. These events have long since been over, so there is no way to currently obtain Mew without glitches or cheating. Mew is banned from most RBY metagames, so it is not necessary to obtain.

    How to get Surf Pikachu/Amnesia Golduck?
    Surf Pikachu is obtainable from going to events in real life where they are distributing it (which no longer occur), or teaching it Surf through Pokemon Stadium. Amnesia Golduck is obtainable by registering all 151 Pokemon in Pokemon Stadium (US)'s Hall of Fame. If you do not have the ability to transfer between RBY and Stadium, then the only way to obtain these Pokemon is through cheating or using a glitch.

    What are good movesets for Pokemon?
    An index of viable movesets as well as analyses on most viable Pokemon is available here, organized by metagame.

    How to get more TMs?
    The only competitive TMs that can be replenished in RBY are Submission, Reflect, Substitute and Hyper Beam. All other TMs are permanently gone after use, so the only way to teach multiple Pokemon TM moves without abusing glitches is to trade Pokemon to a new file on a separate game, obtain the TM, use the TM on that Pokemon, and trade back to your original file.
    This is only possible in Red Version (US) and Blue Version (US). Put the item you desire to duplicate in Slot #6 with a quantity of 127 or under, then start a battle with Missingno/'M. Exit the battle by any means, then the quantity of that item will increase by 128. By putting TMs in this slot, you can easily teach many Pokemon the same TM moves without needing multiple files and trading. To encounter Missingno/'M, refer to 'How to get unobtainable Pokemon through glitches?'

    Where to get viable Pokemon?
    This depends on the metagame played.
    Catch Tauros, Chansey, Exeggcute, Dratini and Rhyhorn in the Safari Zone in Fuchsia City, Snorlax in Route 12, Abra in Route 25, Geodude in Mt. Moon, Staryu, Slowbro and Shellder in the Seafoam Islands Cave, Haunter in Pokemon Tower in Lavender Town and Zapdos in the Power Plant east of Cerulean City. Then obtain Eevee from the Celadon Condominiums in Celadon City, Lapras from Silph Co in Saffron City and Jynx from trading a Poliwhirl in Cerulean City. Use evolutionary stones to evolve Staryu after learning Recover (lvl 27) or Hydro Pump (lvl 47), Shellder after learning Clamp (lvl 23) and Exeggcute after learning Sleep Powder (lvl 48). Use a Thunder Stone to evolve Eevee into Jolteon before level 30. Trade Haunter, Kadabra (evolution of Abra) and Graveler (evolution of Geodude) to obtain their final evolutions. Then level up all Pokemon to level 100. At this point, you should have access to all the best Pokemon of the 'Overused' metagame and their best level-up moves.
    This list includes Pokemon that are harder to use but have niche uses that make them somewhat viable in the 'Overused' metagame.
    Starter: Venusaur¹
    Route 1: Raticate¹
    Route 7: Persian¹, Victreebel¹, Ninetales¹
    Route 11: Hypno¹, Sandslash¹
    Route 12: Snorlax², Victreebel¹
    Route 25: Alakazam¹, Victreebel¹
    Safari Zone (Grass) in Fuchsia City: Tauros, Chansey, Exeggutor¹, Rhydon¹, Dodrio¹, Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Nidoking¹, Nidoqueen¹, Tangela
    Safari Zone (Fishing) in Fuchsia City: Slowbro¹, Dragonite¹, Kingler¹, Gyarados¹, Poliwrath¹
    Mt. Moon: Golem¹, Clefable¹
    Diglett Cave in Vermillion City: Dugtrio
    Power Plant east of Cerulean City: Zapdos, Raichu
    Cerulean City Trade: Jynx²
    Celadon Condominiums in Celadon City: Jolteon¹
    Pokemon Lab in Cinnabar Island: Aerodactyl³, Kabutops¹ˉ³
    Pokemon Mansion in Cinnabar Island: Muk, Ninetales¹, Weezing
    Pokemon Tower in Lavender Town: Gengar¹
    Seafoam Islands Cave: Starmie¹, Slowbro, Cloyster¹, Articuno², Kingler
    Silph Co in Saffron City: Lapras²
    Victory Road: Golem¹, Moltres²

    1: Obtained by evolving pre-evolution.
    2: Only obtainable once without trading.
    3: Obtained by reviving from a fossil, only obtainable once without trading.
    This list includes Pokemon that are harder to use but have niche uses that make them somewhat viable in the 'Overused' metagame.
    Starter: Charizard¹, Venusaur¹
    Route 1: Raticate¹
    Route 11: Hypno¹, Sandslash¹
    Route 19 (Surfing): Tentacruel¹
    Route 25: Kadabra¹, Victreebel¹
    Safari Zone (Grass) in Fuchsia City: Exeggcute, Rhydon¹, Dodrio¹, Kangaskhan, Pinsir, Nidoking¹, Nidoqueen¹, Tangela
    Safari Zone (Fishing) in Fuchsia City: Kingler¹, Golduck¹, Gyarados¹, Poliwhirl¹, Poliwrath¹
    Viridian Forest: Raichu¹
    Mt. Moon: Clefable¹
    Victory Road: Machamp¹
    Diglett Cave in Vermillion City: Dugtrio
    Route 2 Trade: Mr. Mime²
    Celadon Condominiums in Celadon City: Vaporoen¹
    Pokemon Mansion in Cinnabar Island: Rapidash¹
    Pokemon Tower in Lavender Town: Haunter
    Trade with Red: Electabuzz

    1: Obtained by evolving pre-evolution.
    2: Only obtainable once without trading.
    3: Obtained by reviving from a fossil, only obtainable once without trading.

    How to make [insert Pokemon] viable?
    In RBY, most Pokemon particularly in the primary 1U 'Overused' metagame have been thoroughly explored. If they are listed as unviable or unlisted, unfortunately there is little to no chance that they could be viable in the metagame. Unviable Pokemon can be used anyway, but a team using them will often be at a severe disadvantage. It is better to instead look for a lower tier metagame to see if they are viable there. The one exception to this is Ditto, which only has any conceivable merit in a metagame with Mewtwo unbanned.

    Fastest EV training method?
    Vitamins are the fastest way to increase EVs, but they stop having any effect once a Pokemon's EVs in a given stat reach about 2/5 of the maximum. It may be possible to 'set' EVs to maximum through the use of a very complicated glitch, but it has not yet been tested.

    How to get Pokemon with good IVs?
    Unfortunately, IVs are completely randomized, so the only way to get good IVs is to obtain the Pokemon in question, determine their IVs, and try again if the IVs are undesirable. For Pokemon only obtained once, save before obtaining it, check its IVs, and reload if it does not have the desired IVs. It may be possible to 'correct' IVs through the use of a very complicated glitch, but it has not yet been tested.

    How to get unobtainable Pokemon?
    Without trading the other two starters, the version's missing Pokemon, two of the three Eevee evolutions, the Fossil Pokemon not chosen, the Hitmon not chosen and the four evolutions from trading (Alakazam, Gengar, Golem and Machamp) can't be obtained either. Mew can only be obtained from events. Through the use of glitches, it is possible to capture these Pokemon in the wild.

    How to use glitches?
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
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  2. Fathom

    Fathom Member

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    This is a really informative post. i guess the best way to get them all is to buy both yellow and blue version right? you can only battle with two versions anyway on the 3ds. Heres hoping fior it to be online but we already know that's not true haha.
     
  3. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Yeah I'd say so.

    Is there any way at all of increasing the probability of getting a pokemon with good dvs? Off the top of my head I can't think of any, you've got to rely on catching a good one, which is practically impossible without hacking I think.

    That or trigger an Arbitrary Code Execution glitch. Unfortunately the glitch that's present in the gen 1 games is really difficult to set up. There's one for gen 2 that seems much easier, but that's no use for virtual console



     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Wait is Amnesia Golduck a stadium move only then?
     
  5. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Late reply, but yes Amnesia is only legally obtained by an event Psyduck you get from registering all 151 Pokemon in Stadium's Hall of Fame.

    Looked into arbitrary code execution glitch. It might not be possible obtaining '0xFA' in Red/Blue to get access to the move TM42 (which is required to perform arbitrary code execution) without the Johto Guard glitch. However, Bulbapedia lists that Pokemon Yellow's '0xFA', 'ゥ▾ ゥ♂', evolves from 'Q ◣' at level 236, so it may be possible to use a combination of glitches to pull it off depending on what 'Q ◣'s experience group is.

    I think the steps would be something like:

    1. Use the 'Mew Glitch' in Pokemon Yellow to obtain '4 4 Hy'
    2. Evolve '4 4 Hy' into 'Q ◣' at level 6
    3. Use the 'Merge Glitch' to get Q ◣ past level 100
    4. Trade 'Q ◣' to Pokemon Red/Blue and level up to level 235 with rare candies, then trade back to Yellow
    5. Evolve 'Q ◣' into 'ゥ▾ ゥ♂' at level 236 using a rare candy
    6. Trade 'ゥ▾ ゥ♂' to Pokemon Red/Blue to obtain '0xFA'
    7. Use rare candies until '0xFA' loops to Level 32 and learns 'TM42'
    8. EV train '0xFA'
    9. Set up the inventory to create a code
    10. Use 'TM42'

    Definitely the most outrageously difficult glitch to set up for RBY, but if this works and I can make a code that sets the IVs/EVs/Levels of all party Pokemon, it could be well worth the effort. Just imagine, instead of spending forever trying to obtain 15/15/15/15 Pokemon and then leveling/EV training, you could just capture any Pokemon, work glitch black magic on it, and instantly get a godly competitive version of it. At some point here I'll need to give this a test.

    Edit: Also should figure out the best way to EV train '0xFA' to set up the stats required for the glitch to work.
    Edit2: Apparently the code execution also requires the Pokedex to register certain Pokemon as caught between Tentacruel and Drowzee and only those Pokemon, making this even more complicated.
    Edit3:

    Looks like Pokemon Yellow might not even be needed to obtain 'Charizard 'M' or '0xFA'. If I could find the right tiles, getting 0xFA to set up the arbitrary code execution glitch could be possible without trading.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
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  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    So... PO shouldn't list Psy/Golduck as having Amnesia in the teambuilder for Yellow then?
     
  7. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    There's only point in having a difference between Yellow and tradebacks imo, since r/b differences are so minor and stadium just uses rental sets (no way to catch/snag). In this case, it's treated as an event, just as future subgens are updated when there's an event.
     
  8. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

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    This is getting cool: personally, I have almost everything needed to play OU, Birds League and good part of 2Us (slowly getting it done).
    I used GSC breeding, so IVs are not perfect (still, I managed to keep things as irrelevant as possible).

    Main troubles are movesets and PPs. I cloned pokemon a massive number of times to get all of the moveset and even more to clone damned PP UPs (wish those went for sale...).

    Next level glitch would be "how to get Surf Raichu and Amnesia Golduck" without Pokemon Stadium nor Game Shark.
    It's not truly a tradeback as it's same generation and, mainly, Pokemon Stadium was supposed to be compatible with Yellow from the beginning. Pokemon Yellow had "coliseum 2" area. So it's Red/Blue and Yellow/Stadium to some extent.
    It's still arguable, but what really pushes the decision into letting it be ok is that Raichu and Goluck would be totally useless without respectively Surf and Amnesia and it's very possible that Game Freak noticed itself.

    Here's hystoric evidence:
    Stadium came out:
    [​IMG] 1st august 1998
    [​IMG] 29th february 2000
    [​IMG] 31st december 2000
    [​IMG] 23rd march 2000

    Yellow:
    [​IMG] 12th september 1998
    [​IMG] 1st october 1999
    [​IMG] 7th july 2000

    In Japan Stadium was released even before Yellow, while in the rest of the world the order was switched.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  9. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Stadium (2nd version) came out on 30th april , 1999 in Japan, so it wasn't switched. The 1st Stadium game was out for Red and Green and apparently works for at least Blue too.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2015
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I mean, but isn't there a way to get a legal Surf Raichu on Yellow without using stadium/gameshark (like from an event?), but no way to do that with Amnesia Golduck?
     
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    You should probably note how to glitch it here.

    I'm not 100% up to scratch on Ubers, so... why is it viable there?

    I'll get back to you on this one.

    For most Pokemon, it's just a matter of catching a bazillion of them until you get one with the IVs you want. For once-only Pokemon (Venusaur, Charizard, Blastoise, Farfetch'd, Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, Lickitung, Mr. Mime, Jynx, Lapras, Vaporeon, Jolteon, Flareon, Omastar, Kabutops, Aerodactyl, Snorlax, Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, Mewtwo), save before you receive it and reload if it doesn't have the right IVs.

    I'm not 100% sure whether IVs for glitch-derived Pokemon are randomised or not.

    Also the fossil you didn't take, the Hitmon you didn't take, and the Eeveelutions you didn't choose.
     
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  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    It's not exactly a good choice but it's also like the only meta where it shouldn't be G rank (out of all our metagames thusfar anyway), since you could get ditto to transform versus a paralyzed, pp-stalled mewtwo, which is certainly something possible to make happen depending on your gameplan, though I daresay I doubt such a method would be consistent, but it's enough in the realm of likelihood for Ditto to be considered a vaguely viable gimmick (maybe better with more testing?).
     
  13. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I ran the numbers; the Elite Four and vitamins don't seem to be enough on their own. I'd suggest either the box trick, or if you really really don't want to use that for some reason, fighting a few hundred Rattata in the path between Pallet Town and Viridian City.
     
  14. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    I moved help for glitches to its own thread because of how comparatively complex they are, especially when factoring Arbitrary Code Execution. Also, soon I'll add guides/shortlists for obtaining 2U and 3U Pokemon.
     
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