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ADV OU (OverUsed) Gengar [Done]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Cowboy Dan, Aug 25, 2015.

  1. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Gengar [​IMG]
    Type: Ghost / Poison
    Stats: 60 | 65 | 60 | 130 | 75 | 110
    Abilities: Levitate


    Introduction

    Gengar is one of the few and by far the best of the Ghost-types in this tier. Due to this, it is also the best spinblocker in the tier. It has great Speed and amazing Special Attack. Even though it can’t make use of its STAB moves, it has great coverage in its special attacks. It is also known for being very unpredictable, having access to a number of disruptive status moves as well as Explosion. While it is fairly frail, its typing and ability give it some great immunities and resistances to switch in easily. These traits combine to make it one of the top five Pokemon in the tier.

    Sets

    Bulky

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 24 SpA / 188 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis / Taunt / Destiny Bond / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    This set can effectively utilize Spikes and act as a dedicated spinblocker and late-game cleaner on stall, balanced, and Spikes-stacking offense teams. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide pseudo-BoltBeam coverage, allowing it to make use of its great Special Attack and hit the majority of the tier for at least neutral damage. Will-O-Wisp is the main option in the third slot, as burns are great for taking advantage of the Spikes. Not only does it provide extra residual damage, but it also forces switches due to how crippling a burn can be to some Pokemon. It also prevents certain would-be counters such as Snorlax and Metagross from being able to stay in versus Gengar. Hypnosis can be used as well. A fast sleep-inducing move user is extremely useful in dangerous situations, and it can be very useful for escaping Pursuit Tyranitar. In the fourth slot, Giga Drain is the main option, as it gives Gengar a way to hit Swampert hard and also gives it a more powerful attack to use against Pursuit Tyranitar. Hypnosis can be used alongside Will-O-Wisp for a dual status set. Taunt has great synergy with Will-O-Wisp, allowing it to wear down special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax by preventing recovery. Destiny Bond can be used as a safety button against threats such as Suicune and Curse Snorlax. Finally,Fire Punch can be used for a harder hit on Jirachi, Metagross, Forretress, Magneton, and Heracross.

    The EV spread gives Gengar enough bulk to act as a reliable spinblocker while also granting it the Speed needed to be an offensive threat. Maximum HP EVs and 44 Defense EVs allow Gengar to always survive a +1 Hidden Power Flying from Salamence. 188 Speed with a Timid Nature puts it ahead of all +1 Speed Adamant Tyranitar as well as positive natured base 100 Speed Pokemon. The rest is thrown in to Special Attack to give it some extra power. The EVs can be played around with a fair amount as well. 88 Defense allows it to survive Salamence's +1 Hidden Power Flying even in a Sand Storm. If more Special Attack or bulk is desired, Speed can be dropped to a stat as lows as 300 which still allows it to out speed neutral base 100 speed Pokemon.

    This set is obviously meant to be used alongside Spikes users, but some other Pokemon that work well with it include Dugtrio, which takes out a lot of Gengar’s counters, including Pursuit trappers, Celebi, and Blissey (if Adamant) as well as Magneton, which also helps its fellow Spikes users. Tyranitar not only provides great type synergy with Gengar but also Sand Stream, which helps Gengar wear down opposing walls. Another good partner is Calm Mind Blissey, which appreciates Gengar’s Will-O-Wisp to help cripple some of its counters.


    Explosion

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Explosion
    - Hypnosis / Giga Drain / Will-O-Wisp / Fire Punch / Mean Look

    Set Details

    This set is used alongside special sweepers as a lure for special walls. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide Gengar with standard coverage moves. Explosion allows Gengar to lure in threats such as Blissey and Snorlax and take them out. It is also nice as a panic button. The last move slot is more flexible: Hypnosis can be used to allow Gengar to put two members of the opposing team out of commission as opposed to just one, and again allows it to escape the likes of Pursuit Tyranitar, which can prevent Gengar from blowing up on Blissey. Giga Drain gives Gengar more coverage, particularly against Swampert. Will-O-Wisp can be used to allow Gengar to act as a check to a number of physically offensive threats. It also narrows down its counters, making it easier to lure in Blissey. Fire Punch again grants it more coverage, and finally, Mean Look can be used to ease prediction by preventing Blissey from switching out of Explosion.

    The EVs are fairly simple, with enough Speed to outspeed +1 Adamant Tyranitar as well as base 100s. Maximum Special Attack EVs increase its offensive prowess, and the remaining EVs go into Attack with a Hasty nature to pump up the power of Explosion.

    Do not use this set without Dugtrio, as not only does Dugtrio get rid of many of Gengar’s counters, but it is also very important for finishing off Explosion targets because Gengar’s Explosion isn’t powerful enough to always KO the special walls. Furthermore, this set obviously goes well with special sweepers such as offensive Starmie and offensive Calm Mind users which appreciate the removal of Blissey.


    Offensive

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid / Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis
    - Hypnosis / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    Unlike the previous sets, this set doesn’t provide much utility. Instead, it is focused on all-out offense in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-game cleaner. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide Gengar with its main coverage moves, with Giga Drain and Fire Punch rounding it out, giving it very good super effective coverage as well as neutral, allowing it to dismantle teams that rely on resistances. Hypnosis can be used over either Giga Drain or Fire Punch as a means of aiding a late-game clean-up by putting a key answer out of commission.

    The EVs maximize its offensive prowess in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-game cleaner. Timid is the preferred nature, as it allows it to at least Speed tie with opposing Gengar and gives it the jump on a number of Speed tiers; however, Modest can be used for more power.

    This set is generally used on more offensive teams. It can act as a spinblocker on Spikes-stacking offense teams. It still appreciates Dugtrio’s ability to remove many of its counters. It can also be used alongside Calm Mind + Baton Pass Celebi, as with a Calm Mind boost, this set becomes very dangerous.


    Other Options

    A Perish Trap set can be used as a means of taking out walls such as Blissey without sacrificing Gengar; however, it takes away from Gengar's offensive prowess. SubPunch Gengar is a set that can still find use. It is very effective alongside Spikes; however, it leaves Gengar more easily walled, as it has to forgo some of its more dangerous tools. Physical sets are not recommended due to Gengar's low Attack stat, but they can be useful for surprising foes such as Celebi and making use of Gengar's STAB moves. Hidden Power Grass can be used over Giga Drain for more power and PP; however, the recovery really helps against Pursuit Tyranitar. Psychic can be used as an option versus opposing Gengar. Haze is also an option, but don't expect Gengar to be able to pull this off more than a couple times due to its frailty.

    Checks and Counters

    Answering Gengar is somewhat tricky, as you have to take into account both its attacks and its status moves. Blissey has Natural Cure and insane special bulk; however, it has to be wary of Explosion. Pursuit Tyranitar doesn’t love being burned and can be screwed over by Hypnosis but it can trap and kill Gengar with its access to STAB Pursuit. Celebi has STAB Psychic, Natural Cure, and decent bulk, as well as Calm Mind and Recover; however, it has to be careful when switching in on Ice Punch especially when Spikes are down. Magneton, particularly RestTalk variants, can handle most of Gengar’s attacks and don’t mind being statused; however, they must be wary of Fire Punch and Dugtrio, which is often paired with Gengar. Defensive Zapdos can absorb Hypnosis and other status moves, and it can 2HKO Gengar with Thunderbolt; however, it has the potential to be 3HKOed by IcePunch, so it has to be careful, particularly in sand. Other special walls such as Snorlax and Regice don’t care too much about its attacks but generally don’t want to be taking its status moves. More obscure answers to Gengar include Pursuit Houndoom, Metagross, and Umbreon, as well as RestTalk variants of Metagross and Tyranitar.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
    Disaster Area likes this.
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    A lot of the time when you mention dugtrio as a partner, you don't give any examples of what 'counters' it deals with. Be more expansive on the Other Options, stuff that mightonly see use in tournament play/rare teams (HP Grass for the power boost vs swampert, CB, Shadow Ball, .. is torment a thing maybe, like I used with haunter in adv xu?). My limited knowledge aside it looks very nice.
     
    Cowboy Dan likes this.
  3. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Alright I expanded on dugtrio a bit in the analysis for the first set, and added some more options into the OO. If anyone thinks of any more options let me know and I'll add them.
     
  4. Conni

    Conni turn your magic on Member

    Joined:
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    Heard this was ready for GP so here's an AmCheck
    remove add (comment) AC = Remove comma, RC = Remove Comma
    Gengar [​IMG]
    Type: Ghost / Poison
    Stats: 60 | 65 | 60 | 130 | 75 | 110
    Abilities: Levitate


    Introduction

    Gengar is one of the few and by far the best of the Ghost-(add hyphen)types in this tier. Due to this it is also the best spin blocker in the tier. It has great speed and amazing special attack Special Attack. Even though it can’t make use of its STAB moves, it has great coverage in its special attacks. It is also known for being very unpredictable having access to a number of disruptive status moves as well as eExplosion (just note that you should put capital letters on stats you are talking about and moves in the future). While it is fairly frail, its typing and ability give it some great immunities and resistances to come in switch in easily. These traits combine to make it one of the top 5 Pokemon in the tier.

    Sets

    Bulky

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 32 SpA / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis / Taunt / Destiny Bond / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    This set acts as a dedicated spin blocker as well as a sSpikes abuser and late-(add hyphen)game cleaner on stall, balanced and spikes Spikes stacking offense teams. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide pseudo bolt beam coverage, allowing it to make use of its great Special Attack and hit the majority of the tier for at least neutral damage. Will-O-Wisp is the main option in the third slot as burns are great for abusing the spikes Spikes, not only does it provide extra residual damage but it also forces switches due to how crippling a burn can be to effect some Pokemon. It also prevents certain would-(add hyphen)be counters such as Snorlax and Metagross from being able to stay in versus Gengar. Hypnosis can be used as well. A, since a fast sleeper is extremely useful in dangerous situations,(RC) and it can be very useful for escaping Pursuit Tyranitar. In the fourth slot, Giga Drain is the main option as it gives Gengar a way to hit Swampert hard and also gives it a more powerful attack to use against Pursuit Tyranitar. Hypnosis can be used alongside Will-O-Wisp for a dual status set, Taunt has great synergy with Will-O-Wisp allowing it to wear down special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax by preventing recovery. Destiny Bond can be used as a safety button against threats such as Suicune and Curse Snorlax. Finally Fire Punch can be used for a harder hit on Jirachi, Metagross, Forretress, Magneton, (AC) and Heracross.

    The EV Spread gives Gengar enough bulk to act as a reliable spin blocker while also granting it the speed needed to be an offensive threat. Max HP and 88 Defense allows Gengar to always survive a +1 Hidden Power Flying from Salamence in a Sandstorm. 32 Special Attack EVs allow it to Always OHKO 116 HP Variants of Salamence in sand allowing Gengar to act as a solid check to it. T, since the rest is thrown in to into speed Speed. This allows it to out speed outspeed Houndoom, as well as neutral base 100s, and gives it a good shot of out speeding +1 Dragon Dance Tyranitar. The speed can be dropped to as low as 300 in order to pump EVs into Special Attack or Special Defense. Alternatively, with 188 Speed EVs it is guaranteed to Outspeed +1 Adamant Tyranitar, as well as all base 100s. In this case a benchmark of 44 Defense can be used to survive +1 Salamence’s Hidden Power Flying before sand.

    This set is obviously meant to be used alongside spikers Spikes users, but some other pokemon Pokemon that work well with it include,(RC): dugtrio Dugtrio which takes out a lot of Gengar’s counters including pursuit Pursuit trappers, Celebi, and Blissey (If adamant Adamant) as well as magneton Magneton which also helps its fellow spikers Spikes users. Tyranitar not only provides great type synergy with gengar Gengar, but also sand stream Sand Stream which helps Gengar wear down opposing walls, and Calm Mind Blissey who appreciates Gengar’s Will-O-Wisp to help cripple some of its counters.

    Explosion

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Explosion
    - Hypnosis / Giga Drain / Will-O-Wisp / Fire Punch / Mean Look

    Set Details

    This set is used alongside special sweepers as a lure for special walls. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide its standard coverage moves, Explosion allows Gengar to lure in threats such as Blissey and Snorlax and take them out. It is also nice as a panic button. The last move slot is more flexible. Hypnosis can be used to allow Gengar to put two members of the opposing team out of commission as opposed to just one, and again allows it to escape the likes of Pursuit Tyranitar who can prevent Gengar from blowing up on Blissey. Giga Drain gives Gengar more coverage, particularly against Swampert. Will-O-Wisp can be used to allow Gengar to act as a check to a number of physically offensive threats. It also narrows down its counters making it easier to lure in Blissey. Fire Punch again grants it more coverage, and finally Mean Look can be used to ease prediction by preventing Blissey from switching out of Explosion.

    The EVs are fairly simple, enough speed to outspeed +1 Adamant Tyranitar as well as Base 100s, Max Special attack to increase its offensive prowess, and the rest in Attack with a Hasty nature to pump up the power of Explosion.

    Do not use this set without Dugtrio. Not only does Dugtrio get rid of many of Gengar’s counters but it is also very important for finishing off Explosion targets as because Gengar’s Explosion isn’t powerful enough to always kill the special walls. Furthermore this set obviously goes well with special sweepers such as Offensive Starmie and Offensive Calm Minders who appreciate the removal of Blissey.

    Offensive

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid / Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis
    - Hypnosis / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    Unlike the previous sets, this set doesn’t provide much utility. Instead it is focused on all out offense in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-(add hyphen)game cleaner. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide its main coverage moves, with Giga Drain and Fire Punch rounding it out, giving it very good super effective coverage as well as neutral, allowing it to dismantle teams that rely on resistances. Hypnosis can be used over either Giga Drain or Fire Punch as a means of aiding a late-(add hyphen)game clean-(add hyphen)up by putting a key answer out of commission.

    The EVs maximize its offensive prowess in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-(add hyphen)game cleaner. Timid is the preferred nature as it allows it to at least speed Speed tie opposing Gengar,(RC) and gives it the jump on a number of speed Speed tiers, however modest Modest can be used for more power.

    This set is generally used on more offensive teams. It can act as a spin blocker on spikes Spikes stacking offense teams. It still appreciates Dugtrio’s ability to remove many of its counters. It can also be used alongside Calm Mind Baton Pass Celebi as with a Calm Mind Boost this set becomes very dangerous.

    Other Options

    A Perish Song Trap set can be used as a means of taking out walls such as Blissey without sacrificing Gengar’s life, however it takes away from gengar’s Gengar's offensive prowess. Sub Punch Gengar is an older set that can still find use in today’s metagame. It is very effective alongside spikes Spikes however it leaves Gengar more easily walled as it has to forgo some of its more dangerous tools. Physical sets are not recommended due to Gengar's low attack stat but they can be useful for surprising foes such as Celebi and making use of Gengar's STABs. Hidden Power Grass can be used over Giga Drain for more power and PP however the recovery really helps against Pursuit Tyranitar. Psychic can be used as an option versus opposing Gengar. Haze is also an option however don't expect Gengar to be able to pull this off more than a couple times due to its frailty.

    Checks and Counters

    Answering Gengar is somewhat tricky as one has to take into account both its attacks,(RC) and its status moves. Blissey has Natural Cure and insane special bulk however it has to be wary of Explosion. Pursuit Tyranitar doesn’t love being burned and can be screwed over by Hypnosis but it can trap and kill gengar Gengar with its access to STAB Pursuit. Celebi has STAB Psychic, Natural Cure and decent bulk as well as Calm Mind and Recover, however it has to be careful when switching in on Ice Punch especially when spikes Spikes are down. Magneton, particularly Restalk variants can handle most of Gengar’s attacks and don’t mind being statused, however they must be wary of Fire Punch and Dugtrio who is often paired with Gengar. Defensive Zapdos can absorb hypnosis Hypnosis and other status moves, and can 2hko Gengar with Thunderbolt however it has the potential to be 3hkod by Ice punch Punch so it has to be careful particularly in Sandstorms. Other sSpecial walls such as Snorlax and Regice don’t care too much about its attacks but generally don’t want to be eating its Status status moves. More obscure answers to Gengar include Pursuit Houndoom, Metagross and Umbreon, as well as Restalk Variants of Metagross and Tyranitar.

    Cowboy Dan Sobi

    Implement this once it has been stamped
     
  5. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    remove add (comment) AC = Remove comma, RC = Remove Comma
    remove / remove add / add (I got lazy with the colours)
    Gengar [​IMG]
    Type: Ghost / Poison
    Stats: 60 | 65 | 60 | 130 | 75 | 110
    Abilities: Levitate


    Introduction

    Gengar is one of the few and by far the best of the Ghost-(add hyphen)types in this tier. Due to this, (comma) it is also the best spinblocker in the tier. It has great Speed and amazing special attack Special Attack. Even though it can’t make use of its STAB moves, it has great coverage in its special attacks. It is also known for being very unpredictable, (comma) having access to a number of disruptive status moves as well as eExplosion. While it is fairly frail, its typing and ability give it some great immunities and resistances to come in switch in easily. These traits combine to make it one of the top 5 five Pokemon in the tier.

    Sets

    Bulky

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 32 SpA / 136 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Will-O-Wisp / Hypnosis
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis / Taunt / Destiny Bond / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    This set acts as a dedicated spinblocker as well as a sSpikes abuser and late-(add hyphen)game cleaner on stall, balanced, (comma) and spikes Spikes-stacking (Add hyphen) offense teams. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide pseudo-BoltBeam (hyphen) coverage, allowing it to make use of its great Special Attack and hit the majority of the tier for at least neutral damage. Will-O-Wisp is the main option in the third slot, (comma) as burns are great for abusing taking advantage of the spikes Spikes, and not only does it provide extra residual damage, (comma) but it also forces switches due to how crippling a burn can be to effect (keep 'be to') some Pokemon. It also prevents certain would-(add hyphen)be counters such as Snorlax and Metagross from being able to stay in versus Gengar. Hypnosis can be used as well. A, since a fast sleeper sleep-inducing move user is extremely useful in dangerous situations,(RC) (keep the comma) and it can be very useful for escaping Pursuit Tyranitar. In the fourth slot, Giga Drain is the main option, (comma) as it gives Gengar a way to hit Swampert hard and also gives it a more powerful attack to use against Pursuit Tyranitar. Hypnosis can be used alongside Will-O-Wisp for a dual status set. (full stop) Taunt has great synergy with Will-O-Wisp, (comma) allowing it to wear down special walls such as Blissey and Snorlax by preventing recovery. Destiny Bond can be used as a safety button against threats such as Suicune and Curse Snorlax. Finally, (comma) Fire Punch can be used for a harder hit on Jirachi, Metagross, Forretress, Magneton, (AC) and Heracross.

    The EV spread gives Gengar enough bulk to act as a reliable spinblocker (one word) while also granting it the Speed needed to be an offensive threat. Maximum HP EVs and 88 Defense EVs allow Gengar to always survive a +1 Hidden Power Flying from Salamence in a sandstorm. 32 Special Attack EVs allow it to always OHKO 116 HP variants of Salamence in sand, (comma) allowing Gengar to act as a solid check to it. T, since the (keep full stop, don't implement the ", since") The rest is thrown in to into speed Speed. This allows it to out speed outspeed Houndoom, as well as neutral base 100s, and gives it a good shot of outspeeding +1 Dragon Dance Tyranitar. The Speed can be dropped to as low as 300 in order to pump EVs into Special Attack or Special Defense. Alternatively, with 188 Speed EVs, (comma) it Gengar is guaranteed to outspeed +1 Adamant Tyranitar, as well as all base 100s. In this case, (comma) a benchmark of 44 Defense can be used to survive +1 Salamence’s Hidden Power Flying before sand.

    This set is obviously meant to be used alongside spikers Spikes users, but some other pokemon Pokemon that work well with it include,(RC): dugtrio include Dugtrio, (comma) which takes out a lot of Gengar’s counters, (comma) including pursuit Pursuit trappers, Celebi, and Blissey (if adamant Adamant) as well as magneton Magneton, (comma) which also helps its fellow spikers Spikes users. Tyranitar not only provides great type synergy with gengar Gengar but also sand stream Sand Stream, (comma) which helps Gengar wear down opposing walls, and Calm Mind Blissey, which who appreciates Gengar’s Will-O-Wisp to help cripple some of its counters.

    Explosion

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 188 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Explosion
    - Hypnosis / Giga Drain / Will-O-Wisp / Fire Punch / Mean Look

    Set Details

    This set is used alongside special sweepers as a lure for special walls. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide its Gengar with standard coverage moves. (full stop) Explosion allows Gengar to lure in threats such as Blissey and Snorlax and take them out. It is also nice as a panic button. The last move slot is more flexible: (colon) Hypnosis can be used to allow Gengar to put two members of the opposing team out of commission as opposed to just one, and again allows it to escape the likes of Pursuit Tyranitar, which who can prevent Gengar from blowing up on Blissey. Giga Drain gives Gengar more coverage, particularly against Swampert. Will-O-Wisp can be used to allow Gengar to act as a check to a number of physically offensive threats. It also narrows down its counters, (comma) making it easier to lure in Blissey. Fire Punch again grants it more coverage, and finally, (comma) Mean Look can be used to ease prediction by preventing Blissey from switching out of Explosion.

    The EVs are fairly simple, with enough Speed to outspeed +1 Adamant Tyranitar as well as base 100s. (full stop) Maximum Special Attack EVs to increase its offensive prowess, and the rest in remaining EVs go into Attack with a Hasty nature to pump up the power of Explosion.

    Do not use this set without Dugtrio, as not only does Dugtrio get rid of many of Gengar’s counters, (comma) but it is also very important for finishing off Explosion targets as because Gengar’s Explosion isn’t powerful enough to always kill KO the special walls. Furthermore, (comma) this set obviously goes well with special sweepers such as offensive Starmie and offensive Calm Minders Mind users that who appreciate the removal of Blissey.

    Offensive

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid / Modest Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Giga Drain / Hypnosis
    - Hypnosis / Fire Punch

    Set Details

    Unlike the previous sets, this set doesn’t provide much utility. Instead, (comma) it is focused on all-out (hyphen) offense in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-(add hyphen)game cleaner. Thunderbolt and Ice Punch provide its Gengar with its main coverage moves, with Giga Drain and Fire Punch rounding it out, giving it very good super effective coverage as well as neutral, allowing it to dismantle teams that rely on resistances. Hypnosis can be used over either Giga Drain or Fire Punch as a means of aiding a late-(add hyphen)game clean-(add hyphen)up by putting a key answer out of commission.

    The EVs maximize its offensive prowess in order to increase its effectiveness as a late-(add hyphen)game cleaner. Timid is the preferred nature, (comma) as it allows it to at least speed Speed tie with opposing Gengar,(RC) and gives it the jump on a number of speed Speed tiers; (semicolon) however, (comma) modest Modest can be used for more power.

    This set is generally used on more offensive teams. It can act as a spinblocker (one word) on spikes Spikes-stacking (hyphen) offense teams. It still appreciates Dugtrio’s ability to remove many of its counters. It can also be used alongside Calm Mind + (plus sign) Baton Pass Celebi, (comma) as with a Calm Mind boost, (comma) this set becomes very dangerous.

    Other Options

    A Perish Song (don't implement) Trap set can be used as a means of taking out walls such as Blissey without sacrificing Gengar’s life; (semicolon) however, (comma) it takes away from gengar’s Gengar's offensive prowess. SubPunch Gengar is a an older set that can still find use in today’s metagame. It is very effective alongside spikes Spikes; (semicolon) however, (comma) it leaves Gengar more easily walled, (comma) as it has to forgo some of its more dangerous tools. Physical sets are not recommended due to Gengar's low Attack stat, (comma) but they can be useful for surprising foes such as Celebi and making use of Gengar's STAB moves. Hidden Power Grass can be used over Giga Drain for more power and PP; (semicolon) however, (comma) the recovery really helps against Pursuit Tyranitar. Psychic can be used as an option versus opposing Gengar. Haze is also an option, but however don't expect Gengar to be able to pull this off more than a couple times due to its frailty.

    Checks and Counters

    Answering Gengar is somewhat tricky, (comma) as one has you have to take into account both its attacks,(RC) and its status moves. Blissey has Natural Cure and insane special bulk; (semicolon) however, (comma) it has to be wary of Explosion. Pursuit Tyranitar doesn’t love being burned and can be screwed over by Hypnosis but it can trap and kill gengar Gengar with its access to STAB Pursuit. Celebi has STAB Psychic, Natural Cure, (comma) and decent bulk, (comma) as well as Calm Mind and Recover; (semicolon) however, (comma) it has to be careful when switching in on Ice Punch especially when spikes Spikes are down. Magneton, particularly RestTalk variants, (comma) can handle most of Gengar’s attacks and don’t mind being statused; (semi) however, (comma) they must be wary of Fire Punch and Dugtrio, which who is often paired with Gengar. Defensive Zapdos can absorb hypnosis Hypnosis and other status moves, and it can 2HKO Gengar with Thunderbolt; (semi) however, (comma) it has the potential to be 3HKOed by Ice punch Punch, (comma) so it has to be careful, (comma) particularly in sand Sandstorms. Other sSpecial special walls such as Snorlax and Regice don’t care too much about its attacks but generally don’t want to be eating taking its Status status moves. More obscure answers to Gengar include Pursuit Houndoom, Metagross (comma) and Umbreon, as well as RestTalk variants of Metagross and Tyranitar.

    Thanks for the help, Sans, but you missed quite a lot and you made a few incorrect changes; nevertheless, be sure to read over my changes and let me know via VM if you have any questions about my changes ^.^

    Cowboy Dan Do let me know if you need a copy/paste due to being unable to implement this.
     
  6. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    Cowboy Dan Could you implement the above GP check please? Thanks. Let me know if you need a copy-paste.
     
  7. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Ope sorrry completely forgot about this, i'll get right to it
     
  8. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    Alright went ahead and put in your edits, sorry it took so long, been kind of busy irl and forgot about this.

    I have it as you put it but there was one thing I wanted to ask about. In the 1st paragraph of the bulky set you have "This set acts as a dedicated spinblocker as well as a Spikes user" which to me implies it is capable of using the move Spikes which obviously it isn't. Is there a better way to word this to describe that its role is to take advantage of Spikes? Sobi
     
  9. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    Well you can't use abuse/abuser, so perhaps "Pokemon that takes advantage of Spikes"; it's wordy but I can't think of anything else
     
  10. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Sobi: Your attempt at GP introduced a factual error. If you are to be trustworthy as a proofreader, you must not introduce lies into articles that were not there before. That someone has psoriasis is not an excuse to flay them.
     
  11. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    ?

    instead of beating around the bush, can you tell me what i did wrong
     
  12. waldstein

    waldstein symphonic Member

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    Cowboy Dan: to fix that error, change "This set acts as a dedicated spinblocker as well as a Spikes user and late-game cleaner on stall, balanced,and Spikes-stacking offense teams."

    to

    "This set can effectively utilize Spikes and act as a dedicated spinblocker and late-game cleaner on stall, balanced, and Spikes-stacking offense teams." which has the intended meaning and does not make the sentence execessively awkward.
     
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  13. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    This seems like the best solution so added this in.
     
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  14. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    CD already pointed it out; "Spikes user" means "Pokemon that uses Spikes", and Gengar cannot use Spikes (it synergises with Spikes, yes, but it does not learn the move Spikes). "Spikes abuser" is not understood to mean the same thing. I was browsing the article when I saw that error; I was about to yell at CD, but then I saw that you had introduced it and therefore yelled at you instead.

    One of the reasons good proofreaders are so hard to find is that a proofreader that does not understand the meaning of the text they are proofreading risks these sort of accidental sense changes and thus cannot be "good" for that text. Blundering around like this risks leaving articles in worse shape than when you started, which makes it impossible to trust you as a proofreader. Know your limits, and be very careful about going beyond them; not doing enough to tidy up an article (in my metaphor, not fully treating its psoriasis) is highly preferable to rendering it incomprehensible or misleading (metaphorically, mutilating it, such as by flaying).
     
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  15. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Maybe note only 176 Spe EVs are needed to outspeed +Spe base 100s which is a bit more important than 252 Spe Adamant TTar. In fact I think a faster spread should be the first set on the first set, and the bulkier set in set details, b/c outspeeding stuff like flygon and salamence is huge.

    [So a spread of 252 HP / 44 Def / 32 SpA / 4 Def / 176 Spe with Timid]
     
  16. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    mark the analysis as done if you implemented the check please
     
  17. Cowboy Dan

    Cowboy Dan Host Emeritus

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    The thing is there's really not much reason to drop those EVs out of speed especially considering gengar on gengar matchups can be pretty common. It's more than just being able to out speed adamant tar. I have added the 44 def 188 spe spread as the main one however.
     
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  18. eden

    eden end. Host Emeritus

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    Cowboy Dan
    I think its time to mention 252 HP/112 Sp.Def gar, whether as an alternate EV spread or as its own set;

    dugtrio worth mentioning as one of its best teammates

    HP:Grass is also worth mentioning
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2017
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  19. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Adding to what Sunny said, also make sure that the Tbolt-less variant of Gengar (running Ice Punch / HP Grass / Fire Punch / Will-O-Wisp, as well as more exotic variants) are at least mentioned if not given a slash (the IP/HP Grass/FP/WoW variant needs a slash if not a whole set)

    also mention that fire-types wall gengar that lack tbolt
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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