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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Dragonite [Discussion Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Enigami, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Dragonite [​IMG]
    Type: Dragon / Flying
    Stats: 91 | 134 | 95 | 100| 80


    Introduction

    In spite of its incredible stats, many factors hold Dragonite back, including a crippling 4x weakness to the very common Ice coverage, lack of usable STAB, resistances of limited use, middling Speed and high intolerance of status. Its sole use in 1U is to abuse the very powerful combination of Agility and Wrap alongside its monstrous Attack stat to gradually and tediously wear down and sweep opposing teams, or to use the threat of 'AgiliWrap' to pressure key threats into taking a Thunder Wave they'd otherwise avoid. Players often avoid using Dragonite due to the unpleasantness of partial trapping and Dragonite often being dispatched by unfavorable RNG, but when it works, Dragonite can devastate entire teams by itself.

    Sets

    AgiliWrap

    Dragonite
    - Wrap
    - Agility
    - Surf / Blizzard
    - Hyper Beam

    Set Details

    In the early game, it can switch into a boosted Resting setup sweeper and try to pressure them to switch out, or switch into a slower Pokemon's predicted Earthquake and use Wrap to pivot, but most of the time it is looking to set up and sweep in the late game. Due to most every 1U Pokemon having some way to KO or paralyze Dragonite, it usually has to use a sleeping or frozen Pokemon to set up Agility, or scare out Rhydon or Golem with the threat of a Surf OHKO. In the rare cases the opponent runs a Pokemon without effective means to inflict status, such as Persian without Body Slam, Dragonite can use them as setup fodder as well. In a pinch, Pokemon reliant on 30% chance of status to cripple Dragonite such as Tauros, Moltres and awake Snorlax can be set up on as well and with favorable odds for Dragonite.

    Once set up, Dragonite uses Wrap to wear down the enemy team until they are in range to be KO'd by Dragonite's other attacks. Hyper Beam utilizes Dragonite's massive Attack stat to finish off weakened opponents. Surf takes out the Normal-resists Rhydon and Golem in one shot, while Blizzard only 2HKOs the Rock-types but provides a less exploitable attack than Hyper Beam against other Ice-weak targets and gives Dragonite a chance to beat Gengar with a lucky crit or freeze.

    Thunder Wave

    Dragonite
    - Wrap
    - Thunder Wave
    - Hyper Beam / Agility
    - Surf / Blizzard

    Set Details

    Instead of dedicating itself to sweeping, Dragonite can leverage its threat of Wrap to heavily pressure faster Pokemon to stay in and take paralysis, as any slower Pokemon are susceptible to being gradually KO'd by Wrap regardless of Thunder Wave being suspected or not. However, as this comes with the cost of opening Dragonite to crippling status or being KO'd, Thunder Wave is best used only when a teammate will become a wincon after the target is paralyzed. Agility provides Dragonite with the means to set up and sweep as usual, but against teams relying on Tauros in the endgame, Thunder Wave sometimes can be all Dragonite needs to close out the battle.

    Other Options

    Body Slam and Double-Edge are possible alternatives to Hyper Beam, providing a reliable and less exploitable physical attack for Dragonite to finish off weakened Pokemon. Fire Blast hits similar yet fewer targets than Blizzard, but it gives Dragonite a good chance of burning Gengar before Gengar can KO and utilize the burn damage alongside Wrap to resume its sweep. Ice Beam is a weaker but more consistent alternative to Blizzard that hits the same targets and has a slightly higher chance of freezing opponents. Thunderbolt is a strong coverage option for Water-types, dispatching more physically biased bulky Water-types like Slowbro and Cloyster before even Hyper Beam can and provides a reliable KO for other Water- and Flying-types.

    Checks and Counters

    There isn't any 100% reliable answer to Dragonite, but there's plenty of options with good odds of taking it out before it does too much damage.

    Gengar - Dragonite lacks Psychic and only has Normal-type physical attacks, making the Ghost-type Gengar one of the most effective answers. Hypnosis can effectively eliminate Dragonite from play if it connects, Night Shade outpaces Blizzard in damage, and in a pinch Explosion takes out a Dragonite at half health. If Dragonite has Fire Blast however, it has good odds of burning Gengar before being KO'd, taking much of the bite out of Explosion and making Gengar vulnerable to being worn down by Wrap. Dragonite can also cripple Gengar with Thunder Wave, and Blizzard or Ice Beam can even freeze Gengar if it is unlucky.

    Paralysis - Once Dragonite is paralyzed, it becomes much harder to sweep with Full Paralysis interrupting Wrap cycles, reducing damage and creating openings for other Pokemon to KO it. Nearly every 1U Pokemon has access to either a status move or atleast Body Slam, giving them openings to cripple Dragonite any time Wrap misses.

    Ice-types - Faster Ice-types like Jynx or Articuno immediately threaten Dragonite, and if Dragonite uses Wrap before setting up with Agility, they can safely switch in and force Dragonite out. Even if outsped by Dragonite a single Wrap miss is all they need for STAB Blizzard or Ice Beam to OHKO. Lapras, Cloyster and Articuno have a lot of bulk to absorb Wrap while waiting for it to miss, Jynx however takes twice as much damage from Dragonite's physical attacks and can't stomach Wrap turns from a faster Dragonite for long.

    Stalling - With enough bulky Pokemon at high health, especially if a Rock-type or Ghost-type is on a team, Dragonite's 32 Wrap PP can be exhausted by switching between Pokemon, as a new attack of Wrap is automatically used if the defender switches out. Be mindful of Dragonite's PP though, if the defender switches out on Wrap's last PP, a glitch will boost Wrap's PP to 63 instead and let it keep going!

    Other - Ice attacks from any Pokemon will 2HKO Dragonite, so Pokemon with a high critical hit rate can gamble on a critical hit OHKO to stop Dragonite from getting started. Starmie's Blizzard is strong enough to threaten a 1/3 chance of KO outright with Blizzard, though if Dragonite is unstatused using Thunder Wave to hinder Wrap is usually the stronger option. If Omastar or Kabutops are present, they can exploit their Normal/Ice resistance and Water neutrality to tank Dragonite's attacks and threaten it with Blizzards. Poison and Burn status will cripple Dragonite's ability to use Wrap, so Toxic and Fire Blast can work as an emergency option if available, and Leech Seed can also work as a temporary measure to force out Dragonite.

    For a discussion of wrap mechanics and simulator implementation, see this post.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2018
    Disaster Area and marcoasd like this.
  2. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Just an updated analysis on Dragonite from one of its few users :)

    Edit: In the summation part of the Introduction I need to sell Thunder Wave a bit more. Dragonite's ability to pressure para on to key targets that normally avoid it can be (and has been on multiple occassions for me) game winning similar to how going full out Wrap with enough luck can cheese a win.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2018
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  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Between crits, high damage roll and freeze chance, Starmie's Blizzard actually has a 51% chance of immediately removing Dragonite.

    Chansey's Blizzard has a 62% chance after taking into account those same factors, so that probably should be mentioned.
     
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  4. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Well, I just went with the damage roll, thanks a bunch for the exact odds on Starmie's Blizzard!

    But Chansey Blizzard though... uh... has that ever been a thing? I don't think it's worth mentioning something that you will NEVER see in RBY (well, besides low ladder).
     
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Well, I used it a bunch way back when, but I'll admit that I can't remember anyone else of note using it (though I can't say I really understand why).
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    tbh Chansey blizzard ought to be mentioned even though it's a long lost dark art by this point
     
  7. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Hi I disagree with Blizzard being mentioned, as it's absurdly obscure and frankly not worth running, as it does not offer any appreciable advantage to offset the loss of PP.

    M9M I think Dre might've used Dnite back in the day- I swear they ran a team of all three wrappers. More recently, Nails was an advocate for Dnite and was pretty good, though tbh I don't know how much they play rby these days or how long they were involved
     
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  8. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I don't mean I used Dnite - plenty of people did, though most of them sucked - but rather that I ran Blizzard Chansey.

    Are you disagreeing with Blizzard being on the set of Dnite, or Blizzard Chansey being mentioned?.
     
  9. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    He's likely speaking of Blizzard Chansey, where you go from ~80% chance of freezing a target before running out of PP to ~50%, with the added problems of running out of Chansey's Ice coverage a lot faster which turns it into titanic Exeggutor/GolDon fodder. Blizzard on Dragonite doesn't run into PP problems because it's usually a finishing move, so Dragonite is far more likely to either KO everything or be KO'd itself before PP ever became a problem.

    I'm really curious, why did you use Blizzard Chansey? If we're talking Japanese Blizzard, it'd be understandable, but International Blizzard on Chansey seems extremely situational at best.
     
  10. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    3HKO on Tauros, slightly better chance of 3HKO on Exeggutor, likely OHKO on Dragonite.

    The freeze chance thing assumes that you're actually using all or most of your Ice Beam PP, which isn't necessarily the case. It makes it less of an option to play for a freeze on stuff like Zam, but in an actual Chansey vs. Chansey freeze war your chances are much better than those numbers suggest.

    I mean, obviously using Blizzard on a one-attack Chansey is lunacy. But if you're running Tbolt then the PP's not that big a deal.
     
  11. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Pretty strongly disagree. Odds are the 3HKO on Tauros won't matter in an actual match, usually Tauros is going to straight up KO or Chansey is likely to have beaten it anyway. A 30% increase of 3HKO on Exeggutor isn't a major increase especially when you consider the 10% chance of miss each attack. Dragonite is rarely used.

    And PP tends to be a big deal. If you're in a PP war, you tend to need every bit of PP you have, as well as PP for Ice coverage. Blizzard seems like a good way to screw yourself over in reduced chance to freeze / losing any PP war with other Chanseys / misses for too little gain.
     
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  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Agreeing that the 3HKO on Tauros doesn't matter, it's not common that tauros is around 30%ish - the point at which Blizzard KOs but Ice Beam doesn't; Tauros ditto usually leaves a Tauros a little over 40%, at which point there's no real difference - if anything, you'd rather have Ice Beam which is at least more accurate. I think Enigami is right that the other situations presented are also fairly irrelevant for the most part, especially in comparison to the benefits offered by Ice Beam.
     

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