ADV 2U-L Discussion Thread

Welcome to the ADV 2U discussion thread! The meta's pretty newly formed, so for now we can just use this thread to share our thoughts on the meta. I'll start writing some informative stuff come the second post.

Announcement: Pokémon Perfect

In summary, these Pokémon are banned from ADV 2U in addition to those banned from ADV 1U: Aerodactyl, Blissey, Celebi, Claydol, Dugtrio, Flygon, Forretress, Gengar, Gyarados, Heracross, Jirachi, Jolteon, Magenton, Metagross, Milotic, Porygon2, Raikou, Regice, Salamence, Skarmory, Snorlax, Starmie, Suicune, Swampert, Tyranitar, Zapdos

I'm really keen to start getting into this :3
 
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DG9

Member
Well I've never really played ADV 2U/UU before, here is what I see being threats.

Shiftry: A CB set with unresisted Brick Break/Shadow Ball seems like fun. That will be sure to hit very hard. It also gets access to SD, so we could see some interesting coverage there.

Omastar: What even stops a rain dance set? All I really see is Cradily... Meganium gets 2HKO'd by an Ice Beam. I guess bulky water types could tank an HP electric/grass, but this is going to be a threat in my eyes. It also could be a very good spiker.

Nidoking: Probably more of a threat than Shiftry. Great STABs and coverage, I honestly don't see too many answers to this other than faster threats.

This is just what I have seen so far from looking over the tier list, these could be very right or very wrong, I haven't tested anything yet. Looking forward to see how this tier turns out.
 
Alright gonna post some sprites of important looking Pokémon!

manectric.png
raichu.png
ampharos.png
electabuzz.png
lanturn.png
qwilfish.png
tentacruel.png
blastoise.png
kabutops.png
omastar.png
ludicolo.png
kingdra.png
gorebyss.png
cloyster.png
glalie.png
lapras.png
quagsire.png
vaporeon.png
slowbro.png
slowking.png
jynx.png
gardevoir.png
hypno.png
mr-mime.png
alakazam.png
espeon.png
exeggutor.png
meganium.png
jumpluff.png
venusaur.png
shiftry.png
sceptile.png
breloom.png
medicham.png
machamp.png
hariyama.png
hitmontop.png
poliwrath.png
blaziken.png
moltres.png
arcanine.png
entei.png
charizard.png
houndoom.png
camerupt.png
rhydon.png
solrock.png
lunatone.png
cradily.png
armaldo.png
aggron.png
regirock.png
marowak.png
nidoking.png
donphan.png
steelix.png
registeel.png
scizor.png
pinsir.png
umbreon.png
absol.png
dusclops.png
banette.png
misdreavus.png
smeargle.png
chansey.png
miltank.png
slaking.png
tauros.png
ursaring.png
zangoose.png
swellow.png
dodrio.png
dragonite.png
altaria.png
articuno.png
ninjask.png
scyther.png
crobat.png
weezing.png

On the note of hazards, only Cloyster, Smeargle, and maybe the rare Omastar/Qwilfish/Cacturne look like potential spikers, with Cloyster and Smeargle (again) and possibly Donphan/Tentacruel/Blastoise/Hitmontop/Armaldo doing spinning work.
 
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xjoelituh

Banned
PPL Champion RBY OU Master Tournament Bronze
Same as DG9, I've never tryed the tier yet but I see rain so powerful and centralizing and it beats almost every mon.

Using something like Kingdra + Ludicolo + Qwilfish you can beat everything, the only issue maybe would be Twave Slowbro/Chansey that comes in on Kingdra.
 
Starting to get some games down
[Gen 3] OU replay: KristophV vs. DG9 - Pokmon Showdown
[Gen 3] OU replay: Disaster Area vs. Stockings - Pokmon Showdown
[Gen 3] OU replay: Disaster Area vs. DG9 - Pokmon Showdown

Wish I stopped choking, Rhydon is a lord.

rhydon.png

Rhydon (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

What a destroyer. Outspeeds Max Base 80s at +1. I lost both matches I've played at this point cos I choked with this mon twice. Remember unboosted, it outspeeds uninvested base 76's and below [hitmonchan and anything slower]
Sceptile (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 236 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Substitute
- Leech Seed
- Leaf Blade
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Swellow (M) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Sleep Talk
- Facade
- Return
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Medicham (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Pure Power
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Shadow Ball
- High Jump Kick
- Baton Pass
- Rock Slide

Qwilfish (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Poison Point
EVs: 176 HP / 104 Atk / 228 Spe
Lonely Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Self-Destruct
- Surf

Rhydon (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

Charizard (M) @ Charcoal
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Rock Slide
yes my first team has a lot of flaws lol.

Skype group if anyone's interested https://join.skype.com/isQbZDulrGUF
 
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Working on some teams, hope to get some games done in the future.

Here's something fun I discovered:
trapinch.png

Trapinch @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power Bug

If this gets a safe switch-in, kiss Chansey goodbye. And uninvested Qwilfish. And most Electrics. And squishy or EQ weak Special attackers. And lots of things that are paralyzed, too. Even Alakazam isn't safe from this thing. It can usually only get 1 kill before it requires paralysis support or is limited to using Quick Attack, but if your team needs one of those targets dead, Trapinch does a pretty good job of eliminating them. If you really want to ensure Chansey is dead, Sleep Talk could be run for insurance against a cheeky Sing Chansey. Trapinch can sacrifice some of its capacity to survive special attacks to outspeed Dusclops, Steelix and Slowbro with 164 Spe (at that point, it outspeeds every paralyzed mon up to 252+ Spe Swellow), or 196 if you want -0 Spe Camerupt dead too. 244 Spe can snag 0 EV Base 40s as well (Camerupt, Rhydon).

88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252+ Def Chansey: 383-451 (59.7 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 383-451 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 275-324 (99.2 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 293-345 (91.2 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Hypno: 186-219 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Hidden Power Bug vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
OHKOs Ampharos, Electabuzz, Raichu, Manectric, Alakazam, Qwilfish, Tentacruel, Nidoking, Entei, Charizard, Houndoom, Smeargle, Shiftry, Exeggutor
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 168 HP Trapinch: 100-100 (36.6 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
0 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 78-92 (28.5 - 33.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
0 SpA Qwilfish Hydro Pump vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 200-236 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 193-228 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252+ Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 170-200 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252+ Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 181-214 (66.3 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 202-238 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Raichu Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 222-262 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Tentacruel Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 214-252 (78.3 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 249-294 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 209-246 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Trapinch: 242-285 (88.6 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Entei Flamethrower vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 226-267 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 238-280 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 239-282 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Exeggutor Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 205-242 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Shiftry Brick Break vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Trapinch: 210-248 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Shiftry Hidden Power Grass vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 246-290 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 197-232 (72.1 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 202-238 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Hypno Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 127-150 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
 
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DG9

Member
After playing the meta a bit more, here are my thoughts on threats and things. (May be a long post)

Cloyster: Easy A+ rank, probably S rank. The main spiker and probably the main spinner in the tier with a decent movepool. You can fit it on every team, and it is pretty splashable. It has decent stabs, option to boom, resttalk, toxic, etc and very high defense.

Rain spam: A fun playstyle. If played right, it can easily run through teams. I'd say the main set up for these teams would be 2-3 rain sweepers, grass killer, electric killer, special wall killer, filler. As far as the most threatening rain abusers go, I'd say watch out for Omastar and Gorybyss. High special attack and will most likely getting at least 1 kill with rain up. I'd say rain in this meta would be equivalent to a little worse rain in Smogon OU.

Machamp/Fighting types in general: Very good in this meta. I think Machamp deserves a special mention though because of the versatility. It can run CB and break pretty much everything, you may have to use prediction. My favorite set however is one that I have innovated, Rest/Bulk Up/Cross Chop or Brick Break/HP Ghost. This set beats all the stall in the meta right now. It straight up counters Dusclops and Chansey, and if it gets started with setting up, the game is over. Other fighting types such as Medicham and Blaziken are very threatening here as well. Blaziken can use a SD set very well, and with decent speed proceed to sweep even the bulkiest of teams. Medicham serves as the wallbreaker of wallbreakers. Nothing other than ghost types really want to switch into a CB fighting stab. Even mons that resist the stab will take a decent chunk.

Alakazam: This mon is going to be good as well. It has a great speed tier, so it breaks offense with its hard hitting stab. CM, although having trouble with Dusclops and some Chansey, can do well against fat teams especially with the coverage it can run. It also gets reliable recovery and Synchronize, so you must take caution when trying wear it down with status.

That's all I have for now, I'm sure I'll have more later. Very fun meta! Maybe if we keep growing it, we could get a council going (I don't think there is one already, correct me if I am wrong) and I would be glad to help out, just
 
Working on some teams, hope to get some games done in the future.

Here's something fun I discovered:
trapinch.png

Trapinch @ Choice Band
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 168 HP / 88 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Quick Attack
- Rock Slide
- Hidden Power Bug

If this gets a safe switch-in, kiss Chansey goodbye. And uninvested Qwilfish. And most Electrics. And squishy or EQ weak Special attackers. And lots of things that are paralyzed, too. Even Alakazam isn't safe from this thing. It can usually only get 1 kill before it requires paralysis support or is limited to using Quick Attack, but if your team needs one of those targets dead, Trapinch does a pretty good job of eliminating them. If you really want to ensure Chansey is dead, Sleep Talk could be run for insurance against a cheeky Sing Chansey. Trapinch can sacrifice some of its capacity to survive special attacks to outspeed Dusclops, Steelix and Slowbro with 164 Spe (at that point, it outspeeds every paralyzed mon up to 252+ Spe Swellow), or 196 if you want -0 Spe Camerupt dead too. 244 Spe can snag 0 EV Base 40s as well (Camerupt, Rhydon).

88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252+ Def Chansey: 383-451 (59.7 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chansey: 383-451 (54.4 - 64%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gardevoir: 275-324 (99.2 - 116.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 200 HP / 0 Def Espeon: 293-345 (91.2 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 192+ Def Hypno: 186-219 (49.7 - 58.5%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
88+ Atk Choice Band Trapinch Hidden Power Bug vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Sceptile: 256-302 (91.1 - 107.4%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
OHKOs Ampharos, Electabuzz, Raichu, Manectric, Alakazam, Qwilfish, Tentacruel, Nidoking, Entei, Charizard, Houndoom, Smeargle, Shiftry, Exeggutor
Chansey Seismic Toss vs. 168 HP Trapinch: 100-100 (36.6 - 36.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
0 SpA Chansey Ice Beam vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 78-92 (28.5 - 33.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
0 SpA Qwilfish Hydro Pump vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 200-236 (73.2 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Ampharos Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 193-228 (70.6 - 83.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252+ Electabuzz Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 170-200 (62.2 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 3 layers of Spikes
252+ Manectric Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 181-214 (66.3 - 78.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 2 layers of Spikes
252 SpA Raichu Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 202-238 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Raichu Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 222-262 (81.3 - 95.9%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
0 SpA Tentacruel Surf vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 214-252 (78.3 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Sceptile Leaf Blade vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 249-294 (91.2 - 107.6%) -- 50% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 209-246 (76.5 - 90.1%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Nidoking Earthquake vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Trapinch: 242-285 (88.6 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 SpA Entei Flamethrower vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 226-267 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Charizard Fire Blast vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 238-280 (87.1 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 239-282 (87.5 - 103.2%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Exeggutor Hidden Power Ice vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 205-242 (75 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Shiftry Brick Break vs. 168 HP / 0 Def Trapinch: 210-248 (76.9 - 90.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Shiftry Hidden Power Grass vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 246-290 (90.1 - 106.2%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Gardevoir Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 197-232 (72.1 - 84.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ SpA Espeon Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 202-238 (73.9 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 SpA Hypno Psychic vs. 168 HP / 252 SpD Trapinch: 127-150 (46.5 - 54.9%) -- 66.8% chance to 2HKO
Does Trapinch beat Toxic Chansey? + Even vs Chansey, you need to get in via a double-switch. Qwilfish still spikes versus you safely, and if you're unlucky and find out it's a rain-using set then you lose. The Electric-types are kinda rare imo. Zard can't be trapped remember, Smeargle Spores it and if it's already Spored then it means it can Spike for free. Espeon is BPing, Hypno might BP/use Ice Punch, Zam runs Timid usually imo, and it can run Ice Punch, and will almost always run CM. Shifty will probably run Sunnybeam a lot of the time, Exeggutor will always run it, as does Houndoom/ You don't trap Zard. Trapinch really can only come in on a double switch. At best it looks like it can be effective if you achieve that, which isn't that good, and due to being slow, Spikes-weak, frail, and losing in the case of any critical hit, it just does not look that good to me. In Smogon ADV NU, Diglett was more effective than Trapinch, and even then was not super common (maybe shoulda been moreso though).
After playing the meta a bit more, here are my thoughts on threats and things. (May be a long post)

Cloyster: Easy A+ rank, probably S rank. The main spiker and probably the main spinner in the tier with a decent movepool. You can fit it on every team, and it is pretty splashable. It has decent stabs, option to boom, resttalk, toxic, etc and very high defense.

Rain spam: A fun playstyle. If played right, it can easily run through teams. I'd say the main set up for these teams would be 2-3 rain sweepers, grass killer, electric killer, special wall killer, filler. As far as the most threatening rain abusers go, I'd say watch out for Omastar and Gorybyss. High special attack and will most likely getting at least 1 kill with rain up. I'd say rain in this meta would be equivalent to a little worse rain in Smogon OU.

Machamp/Fighting types in general: Very good in this meta. I think Machamp deserves a special mention though because of the versatility. It can run CB and break pretty much everything, you may have to use prediction. My favorite set however is one that I have innovated, Rest/Bulk Up/Cross Chop or Brick Break/HP Ghost. This set beats all the stall in the meta right now. It straight up counters Dusclops and Chansey, and if it gets started with setting up, the game is over. Other fighting types such as Medicham and Blaziken are very threatening here as well. Blaziken can use a SD set very well, and with decent speed proceed to sweep even the bulkiest of teams. Medicham serves as the wallbreaker of wallbreakers. Nothing other than ghost types really want to switch into a CB fighting stab. Even mons that resist the stab will take a decent chunk.

Alakazam: This mon is going to be good as well. It has a great speed tier, so it breaks offense with its hard hitting stab. CM, although having trouble with Dusclops and some Chansey, can do well against fat teams especially with the coverage it can run. It also gets reliable recovery and Synchronize, so you must take caution when trying wear it down with status.

That's all I have for now, I'm sure I'll have more later. Very fun meta! Maybe if we keep growing it, we could get a council going (I don't think there is one already, correct me if I am wrong) and I would be glad to help out, just
Cloy is pretty good but its typing isn't that good and gives it a ton of overlap with other good mons in the tier (such as Lapras, Rain mons, Slowbro, Vaporeon, etc.), but yeah it'll definitely be very high up in the rankings, Spiking+Spinning+Booming+Good stats=enough.

There's a lot of available rain counterplay though, for defensive teams there's Chansey, Specially bulky Grasse s [Venusaur mainly], Rain-stall-esque Leech Ludicolo, Cradily (Recover but Ice weak), Lapras [super bulky water absorb 4x ice resist], vaporeon [wisher, water absorb, 130/95 special bulk], for offense there's the consideration of rain mons generally being pretty slow outside of rain, sun mons like exeggutor would be pretty nice anti-sun, powerful offensive stuff like the many available Normal-type would be good - Omastar/Kabutops aren't that bulky rocks [compared to some available in this tier] and more exploitable due to the huge grass weakness. Grass tpyes look great on that note. Also Registeel is Water-neutral and 80/150 bulk with Twave. I'm happy to say there's a ton of available counterplay, if you put some thought into it.

I really don't think Machamp's that special - a Bulk Up abuse set would be better (does it get that, idr?). It's nice and powerful, and yes can break Clops+Chans [can't think up a way to describe it as nice as SkarmBliss sounds] as can a lot of mons, idt it makes it that special. Hariyama would make use of that set betetr, due to Guts, although Knock Off>HP Ghost to annoy things in general could be nice too. Fighting types do have more issues than Dusclops, though Fight+Ghost=Perfect neutral coverage. Poison-, Flying-, Psychic-, and Bug-types all resist Fighting too. Medicham or Blaziken can run Boosting moves+Fighting/Ghost/Rock coverage, though I'm not totally sure what blaze really wants to run. I think you're over-rating the fighting types though. Yes, they are good, but due to their avereage speed and mediocre bulk, in spite of high power, they're not all that good. Still, it's cool having decent Fighting-types available.

Yeah Zam is really cool, has a ton of options. Trick messes with some stall, Toxic/Twave are neat tools, it gets Taunt, Encore, screens, Recover and CM of course, Knock Off, elemental punches, and some less significant things too. It looks like a really neat mon in the meta for sure, very customisable.
Anyway, time for something cool now =] Last night me, cowboydan, plancklength, and a few others were building or watching building happen of a team together on a piratepad (link: PiratePad: Co4sKlJ55T ) although it's not quite complete (some EV spreads still to be done) and I think that maybe venu should be changed.

altaria.png
venusaur.png
solrock.png
chansey.png
cloyster.png
dusclops.png

Altaria (M) @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SpA
Nature

- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Toxic

Venusaur (M) @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Overgrow
EVs:
Nature

- Sleep Powder
- Roar
- Leech Seed
- Hidden Power Grass

SOLROCK @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Impish Nature
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect

Chansey (F) @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Wish

Cloyster (F) @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs:
Nature

- Spikes
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Dusclops (F) @ (Leftovers)
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Pain Split
Summary of our choices: Altaria - Breloom and Steelix Counter, - SpA EVs: Altaria Flamethrower vs. Steelix: 113-134 (31.9 - 37.8%) -- 93.5% chance to 3HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery [lix is 252/252+ in this calc]. Rest+Natural Cure is cool, and Heal Bell lets us run Wish Chansey, helping support Cloy/Clops/Solrock/Venu. Cloy, Clops, and Chans are obvious choices. It gives us spinning, Spiking, Spinblocking, Wish support, the best special wall available, the means to beat Dnite, Alakazam, check Rain, answer Normal-types. Solrock provides a second check to normal-types, a flying resist, and an answer to Bellyzard. Venusaur fills it out (imo we should reconsider what mon should be in this slot tho) by providing a second rain check, a check to boosting Rhydon, a check to Baton Pass (with Roar), and another check to Breloom. The issue I have with it though, are the absence of a Ground-resistance, and the inability to beat Mr. Mime [Soundproof+CMpass is really annoying for this team to face). Maybe we could EV it to break Mr. Mime's subs at +1 and then sleep powder or leech seed it (sounds risky though and I'm not sure it'll break the sub).

So if anyone wants to continue working on this, go to the piratepad!
 
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Does Trapinch beat Toxic Chansey? + Even vs Chansey, you need to get in via a double-switch. Qwilfish still spikes versus you safely, and if you're unlucky and find out it's a rain-using set then you lose. The Electric-types are kinda rare imo. Zard can't be trapped remember, Smeargle Spores it and if it's already Spored then it means it can Spike for free. Espeon is BPing, Hypno might BP/use Ice Punch, Zam runs Timid usually imo, and it can run Ice Punch, and will almost always run CM. Shifty will probably run Sunnybeam a lot of the time, Exeggutor will always run it, as does Houndoom/ You don't trap Zard. Trapinch really can only come in on a double switch. At best it looks like it can be effective if you achieve that, which isn't that good, and due to being slow, Spikes-weak, frail, and losing in the case of any critical hit, it just does not look that good to me. In Smogon ADV NU, Diglett was more effective than Trapinch, and even then was not super common (maybe shoulda been moreso though).
Trapinch doesn't necessarily need a double switch, it can switch in on Thunder Wave/Wish/Softboiled/Heal Bell too. I'm pretty sure Trapinch also beats Chansey as it switches into Toxic, but I'll need to double check that at some point. Most of the rest of the post was to show that Trapinch could accomplish something when there's not a Chansey to kill. Sunnybeamers generally can kill it without Solar Beam, Trapinch would has to catch them out of sun to KO. Didn't think about CM Zam/BP Espeon/BP Hypno. Spikers do get to spike, but if you still have your spinner you can ensure Spikes are removed for the rest of the game. I know it doesn't trap Zard, but it can still kill it without needing it paralyzed. It also gets trapping + Quick Attack to prevent weakened mons from surviving. But a large part of its appeal to me was that it could survive and KO Electrics where Diglett couldn't, so if they aren't common then there isn't as much point in using it.
 
Also, I've now decided to have the clause that you can only have 3 mons max with BP per team. Will see if the 1U Council want it in 1U, but so many strong BPers in this tier and unphazeable recipients and stuff like this make it look pretty damn nessecary in 2U.
 
altaria.png
venusaur.png
solrock.png
chansey.png
cloyster.png
dusclops.png

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SDef
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Roar
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

Altaria (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SAtk / 140 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Toxic

Solrock @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Protect

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Wish

Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Dusclops (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Pain Split
Altaria (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 SAtk / 140 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Rest
- Toxic

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SDef
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SAtk / 30 Spd
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Roar
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain

Solrock @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 100 SAtk
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Psychic
- Protect

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SDef
IVs: 0 Atk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Seismic Toss
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Wish

Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Dusclops (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
- Will-O-Wisp
- Shadow Ball
- Ice Beam
- Rest

Solrock Psychic vs. Hariyama: 154-182 (35.8 - 42.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery vs bulkiest likely spread
Rest>PSplit on clops or druicruel
swellow.png
rhydon.png
qwilfish.png
blaziken.png
slowbro.png
dragonite.png

Kristoph (Swellow) (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Guts
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Sleep Talk
- Return
- Aerial Ace
- Hidden Power [Ground]

Dan (Rhydon) (M) @ Salac Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 228 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Swords Dance
- Substitute

Planck (Qwilfish) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 144 HP / 104 Atk / 32 SpA / 228 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sludge Bomb
- Spikes
- Self-Destruct
- Surf

BKC (Blaziken) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk / 40 SpA / 216 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake

DG9 (Slowbro) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 60 Def / 168 SpA / 28 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Fire Blast
- Thunder Wave

ZF (Dragonite) (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Hidden Power [Flying]
- Earthquake
- Brick Break
Looks like Dragonite is gonna be a key player in the metagame - huge stats, fairly usable movepool, poor typing. CB, DD [ChestoRest, Mixed, and Fully Physical], SubPunch, as well as maybe RestTalk or Heal Bell or whatever], it's versatile, fast enough, and very powerful. Jynx could be pretty incredible too. Zam/Jynx/EspyJump/Garde are all potent looking psychic types. Are any electric types worth using though? Lanturn looks ok, as a general anti-rain Pokémon. Flying resistance isn't that key though - most flying type attackers can easily hit Lanturn hard, and Rock/Steel types are more what'd generally be used against Flyers. Baton passers like Ninjask, Scizor, Lunatone, Solrock, Hypno, Espeon, Swellow, Medicham, Umbreon, Smeargle.. there's so many of them! And quite a few look to varying degrees, pretty powerful. I think Ninjask looks legitimate, with the many Grass- and Fighting-types of the tier, it looks pretty usable. Also ZF showed me the way of Glalie n_n. I want to try lead CB Nite some time soon
espeon.png
kingdra.png
houndoom.png
steelix.png
ludicolo.png
omastar.png

Espeon (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Psychic

Kingdra (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 240 HP / 252 SpA / 16 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Rain Dance
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Houndoom (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Crunch

Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Rock Head
EVs: 252 HP / 152 Atk / 52 Def / 52 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Explosion
- Roar
- Rock Slide

Ludicolo (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpA / 136 Spe
Modest Nature
- Rain Dance
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Giga Drain

Omastar (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 204 HP / 136 SpA / 168 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 Spe
- Spikes
- Ice Beam
- Surf
- Hidden Power [Electric]
cloyster.png
venusaur.png
dragonite.png
quagsire.png
scizor.png
houndoom.png

Cloyster (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Spe
Calm Nature
- Spikes
- Toxic
- Ice Beam
- Rapid Spin

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Leech Seed

Dragonite (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 30 SpA / 30 SpD / 30 Spe
- Brick Break
- Dragon Dance
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Quagsire (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Protect
- Hidden Power [Rock]
- Toxic

Sunny (Scizor) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Morning Sun
- Steel Wing
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Swords Dance

Houndoom (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Fire Blast
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Hidden Power [Ice]
[Gen 3] UU replay: CowboyDan1 vs. Disaster Area - Pokmon Showdown
Chansey/Houndoom/Dusclops/Spiker/Rock or Steel (if not Spiker Omastar)/? sounds like a standard stall build.
houndoom.png
espeon.png
articuno.png
kingdra.png
scizor.png
qwilfish.png

Houndoom (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Early Bird
EVs: 36 HP / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Taunt
- Pursuit

Jumper (Espeon) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 120 HP / 252 SpD / 136 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Calm Mind
- Baton Pass
- Psychic

Articuno @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 240 HP / 208 Def / 52 SpD / 8 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Electric]
- Substitute
- Protect

Kingdra (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 248 HP / 96 SpA / 148 SpD / 16 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dragon Breath
- Surf
- Sleep Talk
- Rest

Scizor (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swarm
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Atk / 164 Def / 44 Spe
Impish Nature
- Agility
- Baton Pass
- Silver Wind
- Protect

Qwilfish (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 120 HP / 104 Atk / 32 SpA / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Surf
- Self-Destruct
- Spikes
- Toxic
Kingdra 3HKOs Dragonite and opposing Kingdra, and can spread para, with Dragonbreath. It's EVd to avoid 3HKO from Moltres Solar Beam in Sun. Scizor has enough atk to OHKO uninvested ludicolo with silver wind, after a swarm boost. It outspeeds 0 spe ludicolo. BP+Morning Sun is illegal on it btw, so Protect will suffice. Qwilfish can Spike and explode for momentum. Cuno/Kingdra are BP recipients too from Espeon+Ssizor. If you can find the opponent has a Houndoom, try and boom on it with Qwilfish. Alternatively, run HP Ground on Scizor, or run an Explosion Exeggutor somewhere. Tbh I already forgot why I added Houndoom.. Espeon/Cuno/Kingdra/Scizor is an incredible core, main issues are houndoom and hazards and twave chansey. If someone can improve on partners for this core I'd be grateful :O Hound/Espy/Fish can all lead rn.
venusaur.png
vaporeon.png
registeel.png
chansey.png
cloyster.png
dusclops.png

Venusaur (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Def / 124 SpD
Bold Nature
- Leech Seed
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Vaporeon (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Roar
- Wish
- Protect

Registeel @ Leftovers
Ability: Clear Body
EVs: 252 HP / 132 Atk / 124 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Steel]
- Curse
- Rest

Chansey (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Def / 252 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Toxic
- Heal Bell
- Seismic Toss

Cloyster (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Shell Armor
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Toxic
- Spikes
- Rapid Spin
- Ice Beam

Dusclops (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Will-O-Wisp
- Ice Beam
- Focus Punch
Regi EVs are for Zam.
Venu and Cloy can both lead, and neither give away that the team is stall.
Focus Punch Dusclops for Houndoom (which can be pretty brutal for this team)
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Not posting any more until after the tour
 
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So there's a bunch of things I'm still not sure about in this meta
ludicolo.png

Still not so sure on how to make rain teams 1 handle chansey 2 handle opposing rain. Also, how do you use ludicolo outside of rain teams, as an anti-rain-mon? It never seems to work for me. Does Kingdra do it better? Can someone show me evidence of how to use a ludi/dra to answer opposing rain? What support do you need?

solrock.png
lunatone.png

Which is better? Are both viable?
More physical bulk and physical attack power (possibly with a CB) vs Ice Beam and CMpassing. I think both get hypnosis too? For those not yet aware, their main niche is anti-dragonite and secondarily I'd say also anti-tauros, and anti-bird etc too.

sceptile.png

How to use anything other than subseed? I had an okay team where I tried SD brick break hp rock leaf blade, but is it the right approach? Thoughts?

gardevoir.png

how to use this? It seems to me like it has just HUGE hound issues that you can't really circumvent outside of maybe with the WishCM set able to get specially bulked enough to run away. It's really cool outside of its hound issues (so's sheddy actually..) but how do you use it, what do you run, etc? It looks like a decent zam/espy check which is something the meta really could do with (there's not too much on that front O_O other than our lord and saviour chansey)

regirock.png

best set? only team i have with it currently runs counter/protect/rock slide/explosion so idk.. it just wants to be your anti-tauros but it's slow without much in the way of recovery so idk.

umbreon.png

how to build with this? can it only trap-pass or does it have other uses? it's too weak to fucking hit anything but its typing is good and it has good bulk and iirc maybe it gets wish? am i missing something?

weezing.png

I might have tried this before but I think it ended up needing some awkward set with like HP Ice. So... what should it run? it has a cool typing/stat spread that suggests it should be a decent dnite check and rhydon answer, but at the same time idk. And it wants to have sludge bomb or something for houndoom since it's actually a huge issue for it if it doesn't have that. So your set ends up being weird sludge bomb/hp ice/wisp/psplit or something. Am I using it right? How else can it be used?

hariyama.png

so 3 questions: 1 what set 2 what team is it gonna go on 3 how to ev
I feel the 3rd is the only one I could answer.

rhydon.png

how to use this? it's powerful as fuck and agilipass with it (or marowak) looks pretty intense. Can it be used well that way? Can it be used well in other ways? how else can you use it? Most teams want sturdier normal resists, and there's steelix, regirock, and registeel around (as well as the sun/moon but they're dnite checks so it's another story, and oma that has spikes. This just has power..)

charizard.png

how to use this? there's drum and then shit like subpunch (the OU subpuncher wouldn't work here idt, cos of dnite..)

jynx.png

haven't tried this. Hound looks like an issue but there's maybe more ways around it since it fits on pretty offensive playstyles.

meganium.png

cute
can this work as a rain answer? is it any good? it seems like a better ground resist than venu but that's about it - and with rhydon so underused etc. does that really matter?

slowbro.png

no fucking idea how to use this outside of rby. But it looks like it could answer dnite/zam maybe.

smeargle.png

what tricks can you do with this?
 
solrock.png
lunatone.png

Which is better? Are both viable?
More physical bulk and physical attack power (possibly with a CB) vs Ice Beam and CMpassing. I think both get hypnosis too? For those not yet aware, their main niche is anti-dragonite and secondarily I'd say also anti-tauros, and anti-bird etc too.

Solrock I think is hands down better than lunatone for one reason and one reason alone, and that reason is houndoom. When one of the most common pokemon in the meta gets a free trap on you, and your main niche is countering the other most common pokemon in the meta, you're not a good poke. Solrock at least has the ability to ohko doom. That being said, Im sad to admit that the prevalence of houndoom makes even solrock pretty subpar from a defensive standpoint, which is too bad because it's a really fun poke. The CB set isn't terrible though, It's pretty good at trading up with explosion and hits surprisingly hard. Baton Pass is neat too for scouting and racking up spikes damage.

regirock.png

best set? only team i have with it currently runs counter/protect/rock slide/explosion so idk.. it just wants to be your anti-tauros but it's slow without much in the way of recovery so idk.

The one time i used it i used a curse set which in hindsight i don't think is optimal for this mon since it doesn't get a ton of chances to sweep. Something like a toxic protect or cb set could be pretty good though, it's just a normal resist with a bit more offense than something like steelix or registeel but with a bit more bulk and fewer crippling weaknesses than rhydon.


smeargle.png

what tricks can you do with this?

Hadn't really thought about this guy, but I honestly can see it being pretty dangerous. Bellypassing to something like tauros seems really scary. It could also make for an annoying spiker with spore.
 
Solrock I think is hands down better than lunatone for one reason and one reason alone, and that reason is houndoom. When one of the most common pokemon in the meta gets a free trap on you, and your main niche is countering the other most common pokemon in the meta, you're not a good poke. Solrock at least has the ability to ohko doom. That being said, Im sad to admit that the prevalence of houndoom makes even solrock pretty subpar from a defensive standpoint, which is too bad because it's a really fun poke. The CB set isn't terrible though, It's pretty good at trading up with explosion and hits surprisingly hard. Baton Pass is neat too for scouting and racking up spikes damage.
Interesting points. I think also the fact it pretty much goes down to a CB Focus Punch makes it kinda poor even though it's probably the better of the two
The one time i used it i used a curse set which in hindsight i don't think is optimal for this mon since it doesn't get a ton of chances to sweep. Something like a toxic protect or cb set could be pretty good though, it's just a normal resist with a bit more offense than something like steelix or registeel but with a bit more bulk and fewer crippling weaknesses than rhydon.
that, and it resists fire

--

also has anyone tried kabutops?
 
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