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BW BW OU - Pokemon Perfect's tiering

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Disaster Area, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Pokemon Perfect has the joy of not being forced to use Smogon's tiering, giving us the capacity to try variants of their formats suited to our tastes. I know BW has a variety of assorted issues to greater and lesser degrees, from weather, weather+speed boosting, scald, various other things. There's no Molemen™ here, so we're free to run whatever we want.

    I was thinking that if we got some contributions from top BW players, maybe we could run a tournament with their collective ideal ruleset?

    Tagging @Lavos Spawn as I know he is talented and passionate about this generation.
     
  2. ReshiRampage

    ReshiRampage Member

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    Would like to see a BW without scald and possibly try out limiting Spikes to 1 layer. Either this or ban Reuniclus since it's so easy to win with Hazards+Sand+Reuniclus. The best team atm is basically Tyranitar, Reuniclus, Skarm, spinblocker, rain check and revenge killer.
     
  3. autumn leaves

    autumn leaves Member

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    Scald absolutely needs to go.

    Auto-weather plagued the whole generation and the few tournaments without it were not only not a "DragMagTerrakion fest" as some like to spew but actually very enjoyable, as were the few games I had 2+ years ago when the metagame was going through its weatherless offense phase. Get rid of it. Needless to say, Excadrill can be freed fully.

    Latios and Reuniclus should be banned - without Tyranitar, the former would necessitate Jirachi/Bronzong/bad Metagross on every team (and can still cripple the former 2 with Trick) since the other checks bar the Surf-weak Heatran all get murdered by HP Fire, and the latter would be even more busted (as if it needed help in that department) without Tar (and Perish Song/Encore Politoed since people like to claim that's a good check).

    This one is more "just because" but I'd get rid of Kyurem-B since it never should've been dropped in the first place...
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Without weather would you consider dropping any of manaphy/torandus-t/thundurus/landorus/genesect too, as well as exca?
     
  5. autumn leaves

    autumn leaves Member

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    Manaphy maybe, Torn-T probably not, Thundurus maybe, resounding no to Landorus and Genesect
     
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    by the way, once the thread reveices no responses for a few days (say about 3) I'll ask lutra to lock it and post another thread with a poll allowing players to select various options.

    It'll look something like
    Ban Lugia etc. etc. (i.e. shit that's blatantly OP)
    Allow Genesect
    Allow Lando-I
    Ban all weather
    Ban some forms of weather
    Ban weather + speed boost
    Ban some but not all forms of weather+speed boost
    Ban Reunclius
    Allow Manaphy
    etc etc
    where you are allowed to select multiple.
    Then something like a pure majority of 50% required after 3 days voting period will be used to decide upon the ruleset.
    Any qualms about this approach?
     
  7. Lavos Spawn

    Lavos Spawn Member

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    ban lugia
    ban genesect
    ban landorus-i
    ban some weather like sun and rain is iffy but fuck it
    ban weather+speed boost but u can still use like sand rush exca in hail
    ban reuniclus
    allow exca
    BAN manaphy, tail glow is straight broken
    also ban baton pass+a speed boost, FUK that. keep np celebro tho
    ban kyurem-b i am so sorry that i argued for this thing being ou like 3 yrs ago

    and the last big one...bAN sCALD
     
  8. rachee

    rachee Member

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    ban volcarona!!!!!!!!!!

    also reminder that if you ban kb you have to ban hydreigon which outclasses it in every single aspect
     
  9. Funbot28

    Funbot28 Member

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    Bans:
    [​IMG] Drizzle
    Rain is too strong in BW OU. Simple as that, there is too many abusers even after Smogon banned Drizzle + Swift Swim. It is such a dominant strategy, that is almost required to use or play against to be successful, better is it's banned.

    [​IMG] Drought
    Slightly less stronger than Rain, Sun still troubles the meta thanks to abusers like Venusaur and Volcorona. If Rain is banned, Sun will definitely need to follow, so it will not be as cancerous.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] Sand Stream
    The weakest of the three imo, Sand is still a pretty good play style, with viable abusers. Like before, if Rain and Sun get banned, Sand will be too dominant and eventually need to be banned aswell.

    [​IMG] Genesect
    Genesect is just too centralizing to be brought back to BW OU. Even if Rain could get banned, it would still gain too much momentum for your team, and be a absurd revenge killer thanks to it's movepool and Download boost. It would be so good, that it would be used on every team thanks to the precious momentum it gives. Should stay banned.

    [​IMG] Landorus-I
    Even with Sand gone, which makes it difficult to abuse Sand Force, it's main sets will always be the RP Sheer Force set, or the Gravity Sheer Force set. Landorus-I is just too powerful for OU, and would need to be banned, especially if Rain is banned.

    [​IMG] Manaphy
    Tail Glow is still too good, even without Rain. It can effectively still use Rain Dance on it's own, and abuse Rest Hydraiton, making it difficult to take down. It would make it difficult for bulky balanced and stall teams to be viable, and would define the meta too much. Should remain banned.

    [​IMG] Reuniclus
    Reuniclus has always been a problem in BW OU since it's conception. Magic Guard plus CM plus it's great bulk is too difficult to break down. Especially with spikes being so relaint in this gen, it is hard to find a team that 100% stops Reuniclus from sweeping it.

    Ban Prankster + Swagger
    Ban Speed + Other Boost with Baton Pass, while also limiting it to one mon learning BP


    General Ubers Banlist (Ex: Mewtwo, Reshiram, Kyogre, etc..)

    Unbans:
    [​IMG]Tornadus-T
    With Rain gone, Tornadus-T can't fire off STAB Hurricane's for free, and will have to rely on a shaky 70% accuracy to hit. Really only reason it got banned in my eyes...

    [​IMG] Thundurus-I
    For similiar reasons as Tornadus-T, Thundurus-I will not be able to fire off STAB Thunders reliably, which again only reason that it was really broken imo.

    [​IMG] Excadrill
    No Sand?, no problem. Excadrill reaosn for it's banishment was the sweeping capabilities of Sand Rush, and without Sand Stream, it's hard too fulfill that role. Mold Breaker is still a great set for it that would be balanced for OU.

    Have no real opinion on Scald, or Spikes atm. The meta would have to develop for me to be sure.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2015
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Also, opinions on the concept of starting with smogon's ubers tier and mae a handful of bans from that, if any at all. That's effectively our policy for gen 6, which has similar enough tiering philosophies to gen 1/2, and gen 3/4's OU's are definitely more diverse but well balanced than Ubers so ultimately it makes sense to me. I'm not honestly sure what seems most sensible in BW.

    I'd be interested in seeing a couple of more opinions (rachee, lavos, and autumn leaves I'm well-assured of their battling talent anyways/they are very trustworthy). Possibly, we could form a BW council of some kind on PP to make these decisions, as has been done in other metagames on PP [Note: Obviously I wouldn't be on the council - in fact I don't think any of PP's current staff team would be sufficiently qualified, but I'm willing to provide administative assistance]. On this note, PP as a whole needs to establish or at least discuss general tiering philosophy to provide us with some direction. It's on my to-do list, but if anyone wants to pip me to the post, feel welcome.
     

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