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ORAS Borderline 0

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by DG9, Sep 4, 2015.

  1. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    Hey guys! I would like to introduce to my own format known as Borderline 0 or BL0 for short. Basically what this tier is suposed to be is a format inbetween Smogon OU and Smogon Ubers. My friends and I have tested Uber Pokemon and brought down the ones we thought are most fit for the metagame. Oh, and before I get too in to this, I didn't know what prefix to put for this so I just left it without one. So anyway, I will now list clauses and the Pokemon brought down.

    Clauses:

    Shadow Tag and Arena Trap are banned.
    Baton Pass cannot pass any boosts whatsoever.
    Swagger Clause: Swagger is banned
    Sleep Clause Mod: Limit one foe put to sleep
    Species Clause: Limit one of each Pokémon
    OHKO Clause: OHKO moves are banned
    Moody Clause: Moody is banned
    Evasion Moves Clause: Evasion moves are banned
    Endless Battle Clause: Forcing endless battles is banned

    Pokemon brought down from Ubers:

    Aegislash, Arceus-Bug, Arceus-Fire, Arceus-Grass, Deoxys-Normal, Deoxys-Defense, Deoxys-Speed, Genesect, Landorus-I, and Mega Mawile.

    As of right now I do not really have a council cause a lot of people have internet died, so there are definitely spots open there. Here you can find the website I made for the tier, this includes talking about some threats and has a not completed viability ranking, but still usable.

    Hopefully you guys like this idea and would like to play it sometime. If you are interested in playing, helping with viability, or even want to have a spot on council just let me know! I will leave you guys to go check this out. :]


    [​IMG]

    BL0 Viability Rankings:
    Welcome to the official Borderline 0 Viability Rankings topic. You should get the gist of these things by now; In this thread, we will take the usable Pokémon of BL0 and organize them in 'tiers' based on threat level. This post exists for people who play the metagame to post their opinions on the rankings, albeit in a polite and civilized manner.

    The general idea of the topic is to rank each BL0 Pokémon under 'rankings' that go in descending order. Since this is a general tier list, everything is lumped together. There won't be any segregation between offense & defense threats.

    As an example, Genesect can be ranked in the S rank as an offensive threat, while Giratina-O can be ranked in the S rankas adefensive threat.

    As of right now, there are four people in the council.
    • [​IMG] DG9 - The creator
    • [​IMG] mags - Heavy contributer
    • [​IMG] Mudvayne AKA Kami - One of the first testers
    • [​IMG] Omegasization - Heavy contributions to sample teams thread
    If you are interested in joining the council, contact DG9.


    BL0 Ranking List:

    S Rank:

    S Rank:


    [​IMG] Arceus-Fire
    [​IMG] Deoxys-N
    [​IMG] Excadrill

    A Rank:

    A+ Rank:


    [​IMG] Altaria-Mega
    [​IMG] Arceus-Bug
    [​IMG]Azumarill
    [​IMG] Charizard-Mega-X
    [​IMG] Genesect
    [​IMG] Gyarados-Mega
    [​IMG]Landorus-I
    [​IMG] Latios


    A Rank:

    [​IMG] Arceus-Grass
    [​IMG] Clefable
    [​IMG] Deoxys-Speed
    [​IMG] Diancie-Mega
    [​IMG] Ferrothorn
    [​IMG] Keldeo
    [​IMG] Landorus-T
    [​IMG] Latias
    [​IMG] Mawile-Mega
    [​IMG] Metagross-Mega
    [​IMG] Talonflame
    [​IMG] Thundurus
    [​IMG] Tyranitar
    [​IMG] Volcanion

    A- Rank:

    [​IMG] Aegislash
    [​IMG] Bisharp
    [​IMG] Gengar
    [​IMG] Heatran
    [​IMG] Hippowdon
    [​IMG] Klefki
    [​IMG] Lopunny-Mega
    [​IMG] Manaphy
    [​IMG]Pinsir-Mega
    [​IMG] Sableye-Mega
    [​IMG] Scizor-Mega
    [​IMG] Tornadus-Therian

    B Rank:

    B+ Rank


    [​IMG] Charizard-Mega-Y
    [​IMG] Deoxys-Defense
    [​IMG] Garchomp
    [​IMG] Hoopa-Unbound
    [​IMG] Kyurem-Black
    [​IMG] Serperior
    [​IMG] Slowbro

    B Rank:

    [​IMG] Celebi
    [​IMG] Chansey
    [​IMG] Gliscor
    [​IMG] Gyarados
    [​IMG] Jirachi
    [​IMG] Slowbro-Mega

    B- Rank:

    [​IMG]
    Alakazam-Mega
    [​IMG] Beedrill-Mega
    [​IMG] Bronzong
    [​IMG] Cresselia
    [​IMG] Dragonite
    [​IMG] Gardevoir-Mega
    [​IMG] Latias-Mega
    [​IMG] Manectric-Mega
    [​IMG] Quagsire
    [​IMG] Raikou
    [​IMG] Tyranitar-Mega

    C Rank:

    C+ Rank:


    [​IMG] Conkeldurr
    [​IMG] Empoleon
    [​IMG] Gallade-Mega
    [​IMG] Hawlucha
    [​IMG] Magnezone
    [​IMG] Mandibuzz
    [​IMG] Mew
    [​IMG] Porygon2
    [​IMG] Rotom-Wash

    C Rank:

    [​IMG] Alakazam
    [​IMG] Garchomp-Mega
    [​IMG] Magneton
    [​IMG] Rhyperior
    [​IMG] Sceptile-Mega
    [​IMG] Tentacruel
    [​IMG] Togekiss
    [​IMG] Zapdos

    C- Rank:

    [​IMG] Azelf
    [​IMG] Mamoswine
    [​IMG] Thundurus-Therian
    [​IMG] Tyrantrum

    D Rank:

    D Rank:


    [​IMG] Blissey
    [​IMG] Breloom
    [​IMG] Hoopa
    [​IMG] Latios-Mega
    [​IMG] Sableye

    Rules:
    • Post intelligently, I shouldn't even have to point this out.
    • Usage is not an argument.
    • Please remember that these are NOT the finalized rankings, some of this may be COMPLETELY wrong, that's what public opinion is for.
    • Happy posting!
    Discussion Points:
    Whatever you feel like!

     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
    Lanculus, North Gate and kame2333 like this.
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Whilst I'm not interested, just leaving a note to other staff to not lock/take it down or anything like that, just treat it as an 'other meta' outside of PP's regular tiering. :] (and I also sorta gave em permission to post it, see my vm wall)
     
  3. Talenheim

    Talenheim Member

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    Megamaw dropped, instantly like

    This tier actually looks really fun, I might actually try it if I can find the holy grail that I have heard people speak of called "Extra Time".
     
    North Gate and Ortheore like this.
  4. kame2333

    kame2333 BEWARB Member

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    Looms like a good tier man :)
     
    North Gate likes this.
  5. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    Thanks for the support guys, glad you like it.

    As for viability, @Mudvayne I would like to put in the following changes:

    Genesect --> A+
    Arceus-Bug --> A
    Mawile-Mega --> A
    Sableye-Mega --> A
    Scizor-Mega --> A-
    Gyarados-Mega --> A+
    Landorus-I --> A+
    Altaria-Mega --> A+
    Deoxys-Speed --> A
    Latias --> A
    Latios --> A
    Slowbro-Mega --> B
    Thundurus --> A or A+
    Arceus-Grass --> A
    Jirachi --> B or B-
    Keldeo --> A- or A
    Latias-Mega --> B-
    Alakazam-Mega --> B+
    Gardevoir-Mega --> B+
    Hippowdon --> A-
    Azumarill --> A
    Dragonite --> B (Maybe)
    Garchomp --> B or B+
    Serperior --> B+

    (Other Changes still need to be made, got tired.)

    I would also like to propose these changes, Forretress to D, maybe C-. It is a great suicide lead if you want to keep a slot open for Deoxys. Qwilfish to D seems like a good idea, having access to Intimidate, Tspikes, Twave, etc. It beats non Epower/Thunder Arceus-Fire and counters most Genesects. Just some ideas. Let me know what you guys think :]
     
    North Gate likes this.
  6. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    jesus christ

    i did half of it now (i stopped at arceus grass) i will finish the rest tomorrow
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  7. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    Awesome, thank you. If you disagree with anything just let me know.
     
  8. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    I would like to say Rest In Peace to a great internet friend of mine and co-founder of Borderline Zero, Montecrist0. If you want any further information, you can find it here. That is all, you will be missed Monte.



     
    North Gate, mags and Peef Rimgar like this.
  9. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    Changes made, rip Monte.

    Also, why such the high rise on Arceus-Grass? It's the worst Arceus form to use. It dies to Genesect and Arceus-Fire easily, and Arceus-Bug as well. Faces opportunity cost from the other Arceus forms, and it's only a good check to Electrics, which aren't that big of a deal in this metagame anyway (I mean half the meta gets torn apart by Excadrill anyway...) While it does sport that 'Arceus-Bulk' and has an OK defensive typing, it's weak to so many common types that it really shouldn't be higher than A-.
     
  10. mags

    mags Member

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    I dont understand why grassceus is the worst arc form??? It loses to stuff like everything else but it has the best defensive typing out of all 3 because it isnt weak to rocks. Ill give u a great example of how u should use it. On a balance team or bulky offense team you need ground resists especially if u are using ground weak mons like ttar or tran. As good as gira-o is it has so many rolls to fulfill on a team and its easily worn down if your opponent isn't dumb and thats why u need another thing to take pressure off gira-o. Grassceus has 4 move syndrome but it can still work very well but you need good checks and switch ins to the pokemon that threaten it.
     
  11. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    In school right now, but Arceus grass is the only Arceus form that is not weak to rocks making it amazing for hazard support. It is also amazing as an SD sweeper/cleaner. That set usually runs SD, Espeed, EQ, Stone Edge which does not get walls by either Arceus form, and not only that but it doesn't need the SD boost to beat them. If anything is wrong with Arceus form placements right now it would be bug being so high. But that is just my opinion. Just a quick response sine my teacher thinks I am reading right now.

    Edit: Mega Mawile is on there twice.
     
  12. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    ...Pretty much the only merit it has is typing, while yea, it's not weak to rocks, SD sweeper isn't THAT good compared to the other two Arceus formes, with opportunity cost that high and (defog being the best thing it does compared to the other two, which wuh? @mags you literally said 'you need something to take the pressure off gira-o' ._. what, it really NEEDS that fourth move? bad teambuilding imo)

    Bugceus has 4MSS but it can still work very well but you need good checks and switch ins to the Pokemon that can threaten it.

    You can stretch that to any Pokemon, really. I don't see how that merits A.
     
  13. mags

    mags Member

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    I dont run sd set and never will but I tried it in ubers and its funny lmao but Grassceus's main niche is just being a bulky support form. I think you misinterpret gira-o's role in this meta... it blanket checks so many threats by being so bulky but it lacks recover so it can only check the threats that the rest of your team cant. Even exca can push by gira all by itself if it gives the illusion that its gonna rapid spin and thats just showing you that even if its bulky having no recovery sucks. Gira-o can defog for a team but your team needs to be fast paced or spikes and sr will remain on your side of the field and thats why I prefer on a balance team to use grassceus as my support set and have gira-o as my blanket check to almost everything. Kinda like how klefki can blanket check a lot of setup sweepers in ubers. If you look through the whole viability rankings it completely walls a vast majority of them and it has coverage moves and status to hit plenty of status. The only thing that can really be said negatively about it is that tran and fireceus get a free switch in because it cant afford to run eq and charizard can switch in unless lure stone edge.
     
  14. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    I never misinterpreted it, but I did assume it ran Defog.

    I understand that Grassceus walls the majority of the rankings, but in a sense so do a lot of other defensive threats we brought down from Ubers into the meta.

    I understand your points, and I will retract my opinion on Arceus-Grass, however, I feel like A- is the best starting point for it, and it can be promoted to A later. That is up to DG9 however.
     
    mags likes this.
  15. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    Just got back from bowling. I have a lot more changes that I think we should discuss, that is up to you guys whether we do it on Showdown or on here. I am ok with a compromise of Arceus-Grass being A- for now, but that leads me to think Arceus-Bug should drop. Just an opinion. @Mudvayne if you want to get on Showdown right now we could discuss everything and to all other users feel free to join in. It isn't just us who can decide, we definitely take other opinions. Thanks again Mudvayne for keeping it updated and it is either my internet or the picture, but a few pictures aren't showing up for me. I don't see sableye or mega latios but it could just be my shit internet.
     
  16. mags

    mags Member

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    I have a few other noms that I was talking about with dg9 but I gotta eat dinner so i'll just finish the part on grassceus. Even if its not good checking top notch mons that have been brought down from ubers it does very well against almost all ou mons. Like you said in your first post exca ruins a lot of teams because of how many fireceus and fireceus checks there are. Too bad grassceus walls exca and even the sd set if its healthy enough meaning above 70% rocks. It is the best defogger on a balance team and possible stall but I havn't tested stall that much tbh and I try not to theorymon. On offensive teams ofc if u want hazard removals you will go with a spinner or probably a gira-o because they dont lose momentum like grassceus. A- is fine but I really think A is a nice fit. If you do decide to drop it I think other mons will need to drop because grassceus is viable and splashable as most A rank mons. Ill be on showdown while I eat so I can i discuss there.
     
  17. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    Viability Changes

    Deoxys-N to S
    Clefable to A+
    Azumarill to A+
    Deoxys-D to B+
    Aegislash to A-
    Tyranitar to A-
    Manaphy to A-
    Mega Sableye to A
    Chansey to B


    Discussion Points

    Thundurus to A.

    It just rose, but it's a great check to the plethora of set up sweepers in this meta, and it also can switch into some Genesect variants well enough, it just hates Ice Beam.

    Qwilfish to D.

    Forretress to D/C-.

    Eh, it's okay, but Skarmory outclasses it a lot and Deoxys formes are usually Deo-N in this meta, but it does have the coveted TSpikes and Volt Switch, a quite rare combo, but lacks reliable recovery, D at max, in my opinion.

    Dragonite to B.

    It's a good non mega Dragon Dancer that can abuse Multiscale to check most of the Arceus formes and Gira-O, which is honestly, a very solid niche.


    A few nominations of my own...

    [​IMG] [​IMG] -> A
    Lol, birdspam is stupid in the meta right now. With all this Ubers running around birdspam checks are at a very low, and are hard to fit on teams now, so these things rip everything to pieces. Obviously Pinsir has much more punch force initially, and the both are punished by ESpam in the meta, but Pinsir can take most non STAB espeeds if it's healthy enough, and Talonflame... well, rip. Talonflame has defensive utility over Pinsir, so they should share the same ranking. Bulk Up sets for both are also good to help against the annoying ESpam, Swords Dance punches holes in most offensive and some balanced teams.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2015
  18. mags

    mags Member

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    yea pinsir and talonflame both need to be raised. On balance or stall anyone who uses grassceus without stone edge will have to find a way to keep rocks up or they will lose because everytime these guys just get a free switch in and can weaken its checks pretty easily. Haven't really tested thundurus but on paper it seems nice.

    This has nothing to do with viability rankings but a sample teams thread could be nice so hosting tournaments will be easier. Of course each team needs to be tested and everybody on the council should like it :)
     
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  19. North Gate

    North Gate Crimson Avenger Elesis Member

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    You'd need Piex's permission to do that, or any other PPMod really. Personally I think we can just lump it into this thread for utility.

    Edit: If we have the resources now, I will gladly post it tomorrow. Of course we need to mark where it is on the intro, and all sample teams will need to be sent via PM to a council member to be verified, not posted in the thread. With a VR and a sample teams thread the thread would get very clogged if we happen to get more fans.
     
  20. DG9

    DG9 Member

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    Alright, my opinions on the current discussion points:

    Thundurus --> A: Agree. Thundurus has a good speed tier, hard hitting STAB, coverage, and prankster Nasty Plot + Thunder Wave. It is the best anti setup Pokemon on offense right now without a doubt, and it isn't too hard to fit on a team.

    Qwilfish --> D: Agree. While not being anything too special, it does have decent typing, Intimidate, Tspikes, and Twave. It has ok recovery in Pain Split and can Haze away stat boosts your opponent may have gotten up. It is pretty much a counter to Genesect and sets up hazards fairly easy vs it. It can counter Arceus-Fire if they lack Epower and Thunder which isn't exactly uncommon for them to lack the coverage. Qwilfish can also counter the rising threat of Azumarill which is another great trait.

    Forretress --> D/C-: D. Not C- material, but it can be used as a dedicated lead which is cool. Having access to all hazards minus Sticky Web is pretty good and makes it an option. On HO, Deoxys-N may want to be used and Deoxys-Speed cannot be used with it, so Forretress could be your go to. A defensive set is even semi useful here being a counter to SD Arceus sets lacking Overheat.

    I don't have much of an opinion on Dragonite as I haven't used it much.

    Talonflame to A: Agree. Talonflame is steadily becoming a great mon in this metgame. An SD set seem to be ridiculous with Hippo lacking a lot more in this meta. Stallbreaker also becomes more of a threat with stall only becoming weak to this monster with the drops.

    Mega Pinsir to A: Eh. I like Mega Pinsir in the format right now, SD definitely lacks answers kind of like OU, but worse. The only thing I have a problem with is it taking up a mega slot and its speed tier. Arceus-Fire can revenge kill it fairly easy which is not good. I would like to see what this thing can do first before we raise it that far, A- is am absolute yes though.

    That's all I have for right now, I will probs make another post tomorrow. I am so tired right now lol, hoefully you guys see my logic behind my opinions.
     

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