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Pokémon Best PLAYERS of SPL and me

Discussion in 'Chat' started by marcoasd, Mar 11, 2018.

  1. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

    Jul 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    This is going to be brutal. Unbiased, uncensored opinions coming from the stinkiest RBYer of the pool.
    I think that’s pretty coherent with the way I am IRL too, and I look at coherent IRL and online personalities as something uncommon. Consider it a charachter flaw if you wish so.

    I feel like the regular season of a tournament gives you a better idea of what's going on than playoffs do, and I don't need a lot of time to copy scores next to the names - I already have an idea about players...

    Record: 0-2
    Retain (10k)
    : No…
    ASD rank: last, because he wishes so Smogon’s rank: 7th, after reporting a 5-11 lifetime SPL record Reaction: (to both him and rankings)
    Badabing looked like a (fascinating) mad horse to me: he definitely has some clue about RBY – I like the way he uses swiches and tries to predict you, but he’s wild as it gets and he has an unmatched tendency to self-sabotage. If things start to look a bit too good for his tastes (which doesn’t necessarily mean above 50% to win) he will just timeout: this fact alone pushes me into saying that he’s a waste of time, not only literally but also figuratively talking, and the waste of a starting slot too.

    JabbaTheGriffin, ZoroDark, -Tsunami, Analytic, Exiline, Arii Stella, Nails, Tobes, mael
    ASD rank: unmarked
    These guys subbed in, they’re like footballers who played just few minutes and can’t be judged over that.
    I feel like they put together a respectable show collectively (the first two in particular), which wasn’t always the case with subs in the past; I admit that Tsunami didn’t match my expectations, maybe they were just too high for a guy who mostly just watches RBY OU being played and is busy in different pokè-endeavours.

    Record: 1-3
    Retain: You can’t retain players who joined during midseason, and this case shows you why.
    ASD rank: 11th
    Earthworm is a true master of GSC and great at some more generations – an old gens legend, he shouldn’t even be here. He’s one of the greatest RSP players I have ever seen in pokemon and this thing alone could give you nightmares under certain circumstances, but he doesn’t know all of the intricacies of modern RBY.
    I’m not sure he should be this low, but surely Maradona wasn’t playing as a left back.

    Record: 3-4
    Retain (10K): Not for RBY purposes – I might want to retain him for different tiers, but he will be cheaper than 10k during the draft anyway I guess. So No.
    ASD rank: 10th Smogon’s rank: 6th Reaction: Metalgross had a strong start, but it happened after unclean wins: his Tauros became public enemy number one and he became hated without being guilty of any wrongdoing watsoever. His lifetime SPL record isn’t glaring, but he’s decorated enough to fit your starting slot: he’s a MT champion.
    In spite of not being really into RBY strategy Metalgross is very well capable of giving you some bad times and pull one good prediction after another anyway.
    I attribute this to the fact that he is a good pokemon player, one of the best among the RBY pool indeed – I honestly think that RBY isn’t his main tier and he should be allowed to play the tier where he gives his real best during team tournaments (saving his RBY time for MTs). Every player should be given that chance, so why not him?

    The Idiot Ninja:
    Record: 5-3
    Retain (10k): No, draft him.
    ASD rank: 9th Smogon's rank: 8th
    He got drafted despite not having any relevant individual achievement, while more accomplished players were left out. Well, not his fault, and rightfully TIN never held himself back.
    He proved to be the most chameleonic RBYer of the field: it’s impossible to guess what he’s going to bring to the next game.
    I feel like he doesn’t have the experience nor the thought-process to be an elite rbyer, and I admit I don’t know him enough as a player in general.
    Anyway, he overperformed and he dumped on us the incombency of trying to explain why he did actually perform (which I can’t solve for you), so he definitely had the last laugh and left the tournament as a winner.
    I want some more consistency to rank him higher - time will tell.

    Retain (10k): No, he’s going to be cheaper.
    ASD rank: 8th Smogon's rank: 9th
    He’s here and it feels low, but the truth is that being 8th is still good.
    I kind of lost track of him, I know he’s somewhat of a Zapdos fanboy wich isn’t uncommon these days, so yeah, I’m pretty incomplete.
    I’m not going to go easy on him though, so I’ll just state that he made the layer 0 move too often early in the tournament – I want more spice from a player who definitely knows RBY OU strategies.
    It was his first trip to the SPL, and there are reasons to believe he will gain some kind of nimbleness: he started getting it back while approaching the end of the season indeed.
    Unfortunately, your first trip to SPL has a tragic impact on your chances as a SPL player – you get labeled pretty easily, and obviously you don’t want a 3-6 label.
    I think he belongs to the class.

    Record: N/A, blame bad managers
    Retain (10k): I would retain myself, and it’s reasonable to get him for a lesser amount of money during the regular draft. He didn’t get to play this year, so he will be a good steal.
    ASD rank: 7th, but I just had to guess Smogon’s rank: - Reaction:
    Beds didn't get to play, but he’s into the VIP area anyway – (including myself in the count) Beds undoubtedly makes it to the virtual top 8 table. This is where you find decorated players who won Seasons, MTs and multiple other tournaments, while also being regulars on team tournaments.
    Many used to not take Bedschibaer seriously some years ago, but I saw him improving a lot as a GSCer before, and as a RBYer soon after. Don’t ever underestimate those who have made a big leap in the past, because they might be capable of more…
    Being over 200 lifetime points on PP should automatically earn you a slot as a starter; add that Beds can GSC too and you realize it was a tragicomical blooper by managers: what where they thinking!?!?!!?
    And I’m not buying the story that Finchinator shouldn’t have upbidden.
    I had to guess his position because I didn’t get to see much of him lately – I vividly remember him playing well and owning my numb alter ego during the week while being an useful teammate, but that’s pretty much it.
    Beds is a player who won’t look down on hit or miss strategies, and he’s one of the biggest Jynx fanboys: his presence would’ve provided more diversity. I feel like he refined his predictions a lot as time went by.
    All in all, every active RBYer on PP religiously joined this SPL only to see one of their veterans being slapped in the face – hope this won’t happen ever again.

    Record: 3-4
    Retain (13k): I would retain Troller for 10K, but I don’t know what Isa will do. If he prefers Lusch again, he could afford to invest 13K on him, especially after some comforting result during the year. At the same time, 13K looks like a lot of money in a context that offers you multiple good picks.
    ASD rank: 6th Smogon’s rank: 2nd

    High ranks filled up damn quickly. On the other hand, not only he didn’t get things going his way: I feel he underperformed due to overdoing.

    Those who played RBY lower tiers know that Lusch is arguably the best teambuilder, especially in early stages – unfortunately, RBY OU shows no love for that. He tried to be creative here and there, just to pay the price to my #1 RBY OU axiom for beginners (which applies to everyone, really): just rip teams, test your stuff reliably and use extreme caution when changing something.

    As a player, Lusch is a gambler who takes risks to put himself in a good position; unfortunately I feel like he didn’t get a full grasp on the strategies (believe it or not, I think we’re going to face some extra arrangement in teambuilding with Chansey’s and Snorlax’s movesets and possibly more) and I didn’t agree with his lines of play at times, which is something I didn’t see coming.

    Considering the amount of success he’s had on PP and his potential, I’m sure he will find brighter days. I didn't get to see his wins in his last two weeks and I don't need to - I want to think that it was just like the Space Jam moment when NBA players got their talent back from the monsters.

    Record: 4-4
    Retain (10k): I would – it looks fair. Getting him for less? Even better.
    ASD rank: 5th Smogon's rank: 5th

    GGfan’s story is the most immersive one: he got unbanned just hours before the auction and arguably left the tournament as the guy who improved his position the most. Not only the player got greened up to an extent that deserves more lines - the character got refreshed as well, while exporting the “SWIM IN GARBAGE, O YOU GARBAGE” trademark abroad with success.
    In the paraslams day GGFan was one of the finest players, but he looked out of gas after 2014: he was still using the same teams too often and he couldn’t win nearly as much as he did before.
    In SPL he looked immeditely in great shape in spite of some early struggle with RNG, and kept playing good hard nosed RBY games accordingly to his style which I would simply call “experienced player” – safe plays when possible, nailing predictions when needed – he didn’t mind fiddling with his teambuilder, too.
    He caught my attention for some unhortodox choices, just like pairing Rhydon with non-Stun Spore Exeggutor, or using Reflect Chansey + Rhydon + Reflect Lax teams, but I’ll give him one pass because I assume he knows he lacked paralysis-inducing moves in the former example, and made himself weak to Slowbro in the latter. He just decided to go extreme and got results: the final score wasn’t kind with him, so I’ll just jump to my conclusion - he did fine.
    I don’t like Harden Snorlax and Defense Curl Chansey, but I loved to see Victreebel in his hands, in SPL.
    MDragon’s fetishism for ancient players led him to the treasure this time.
    Summing it up: great comeback.

    Record: officially 4-4, claims it to be 5-4
    Retain (19k): I said 16k was too much for SPL9, and I don’t see how 19K could look better. Time to be back on the wishlist.
    ASD rank: 4th, and I’m going to get roasted for that Smogon’s rank : 1st
    Last year, Peasounay won RBY OU global championship and posted an amazing 8-1 on SPL; not content he was winning a lot on PP as well and people went nuts over him. How can you blame them?
    Even more, I remember we played some ruthless games when we met.
    This time, something was wrong with Peasounay from the very beginning – being busy didn’t help and I think he got friendzoned by luck at times.
    In most of his losses you won’t be able to find mistakes because they’re rare – on the other hand, he is well known for being reluctant to taking risks which means he won’t get the rewards that many RBYers pursue vehemently these days.
    He isn’t the 4-4 guy as much as he wasn’t the 8-1 guy (well, who is?), and I think he might use this experience to be back with more adrenaline in his playstyle.

    (Heroic) Troller:
    Record: 1-1
    Retain (10k): I would pick him for 10k over Lusch for 13k; we’ll see what Isa thinks.
    ASD rank: 3rd Smogon’s rank: - Reaction

    The treatment Troller recived was flat out criminal – he imposed himself on PP, he was coming straight out of an 8-1 performance in POCL and he was denied a slot as a starter on his way up.
    He’s been busy learning from me, then he put himself on his own at some point. We differ on strategies a bit – simplyfing, he tries likes status more than damage so he tries to win due to sheer supremacy, while I’m looking more for permanent damage to set up for endgames as soon as possible.
    Playing against him is tough and I don’t even figure specifically why, so I think that happens simply because he has all of the good traits you need to be an all-time great RBYer.
    I don’t have much to say about him, but at least that’s some powerful saying. Either you believe me or you don’t, I know people are going to tell me I’m biased because they wanted Peasounay to be here (at least), because he’s more accomplished – I can’t fault you for listing Peasounay higher because players who live at the high floors can be swapped easily, depending on their moments too.
    ASD rankings reflect what I see with my eyes more than results, and I’ll remember you that Troller is accomplished too.
    Anyway, just don’t sleep on him again.

    Record: 6-2
    Retain (10k): Yes, I think so because I would like to be sure to have him again
    ASD rank: 2nd - hey look under your Christmas tree: Santa was here!
    Smogon’s rank: 10th Reaction:

    I don’t remember how long ago Roudolf13 started RBYing, but I surely remember I saw him coming.
    He is one of the guy who grew under my influence even though I didn’t strictly was a mentor to him. I was taking a break, so he started walking on his own really soon and quickly became a tournament player in spite of being known mostly for his ridiculous 97% or something GXE on the ladder.
    Props to whoever in the management made RBY calls: not only Roudolf13 didn’t have his slot sealed – he had an unfortunate start losing the first couple weeks and missing week 3, so they definitely staved off multiple chances to screw up and saved us from a third disgrace in that process.
    He entered this tournament as an unkwnown to many, which explains why he has been utterly underrated by those who knew who he was, at least…
    He is the kind of player who won’t shy away from gambling and he can read opponents.
    He might’ve missed automatic plays later in the game in the past - which is like crushing your car in the box right after winning a F1 race - but it looks like he got over that.
    Add that he pulled a 6-2 SPL record (on the debut) and that’s were things begin to look scary.
    The same guys who dismissed him as “ladder guy”, “nobody”, “greek lol” or things like that are now erecting him as their god, and the fact is that even a broken clock gets to be right twice a day so it will be harder to point out that it’s actually broken.
    He would’ve been labeled as a scrub had he been benched after missing week 3.
    That’s why this is the most annoying, nauseating, itchy and worst jumping on the bandwagon case ever.
    I’m a massive arch-enemy of getting hyped over short-term success, but Roudolf has my blessing (and it looks like all of the PP scene is happy about his rise): I expect him to keep going and be taking the throne on PP. His time has come, I think future is that bright for him.

    Record: 6-3
    Retain (10 k) : Yes no doubt, and he could be used in a different tier if necessary.
    ASD rank: 1st, but a bit moody Smogon’s rank: 4 Reaction:
    The original product of my youth team didn’t disappoint: he had missteps in the past due to being fed up with the tier (which is a must-have symptom for a real top RBYer at some point) and being unable to control it, taking long breaks.
    He wasn’t rusty this time, and he started killing the competition from the very beginning, unleashing his Alakazam lead, Reflect Chansey and Physlax in the face of many Reflect Snorlaxes.
    If there is one thing you have got to learn to love, is players who define a dominant style (which doesn’t mean they won’t ever diversify, of course): if you like these choices for whatever reason, you will immediately relate to Alexander and want to play like him.
    Alexander is the best pokemon player among the RBY pool and possibly not only, people just forgot too quickly that he basically mastered RBY OU in a couple weeks and he won 4 MTs in a row, etc, etc.

    Last but not least, myself - marcoasd
    Record: 5-4, after promising a 6-3 on record
    Retain (13k): Yes: this is the price I would’ve been willing to pay in order to buy myself for SPL9, so it’s only logical to confirm it after a good tournament.
    ASD rank: it’s not fair to rank myself, but I have too many achievements to list which puts me in the proximity of top 1.727272727272 top rbyers ever
    Smogon’s rank: 3rd Reaction:
    I have a lot to say about myself because I know what happens behind my plays, obviously.
    One funny thing is that I have an awful counterpart who plays on the ladder or test games – I actually like that: putting together teams that can work decently for the bad copy will make things easy for me when I turn the tournament face on.
    As a player, I think I have some preferences – I wouldn’t say they’re exploitable to the point they’ll cripple me: many players tried to Zap me, but I was prepared. At some point, I realized that I used Zapdos a lot, myself.
    I noticed that I should improve my team selection: I just have bad matchups all the time, which includes bad luck of course, but it can’t be just that simple.

    I play aggressively, I rarely misplay and I set great endgames – all in all I’m happy with that, even though I could push a little bit more by going more through mindgames.
    I think that my ability to foresee windows to escape from bad situations turns before those windows appear makes me different from the rest of the field – being able to make tough plays without any elapse of time makes opponents unable to read those.
    That’s just the result of having played so many games combined with an amazing understanding of strategies (which basically means you’re able to tell whether something went wrong and you should live with that, or you should correct that).
    I’m pretty happy with my performaces overall, even though I’m extremely unhappy with the result – I feel like I could’ve had even better than the 6-3 i promised.
    This led me to a never-seen-before collapse, wich I’m perfectly fine with. The timing is perfect.

    Overall, I’m more and more happy with my journey as a player as time goes on: I started out of curiosity and I achieved everything any player of any generation could ever dream of, getting a first class ticket to every team tournament in spite of being surrounded by better pokemon players than me.
    Still, there’s room for improvement.
    Some might say that these considerations just don’t match, but I think I dropped an explaination.
    I gave it all for now, only to learn that it doesn’t matter that much. There are great players and guys out there, and let’s face it – I could be back in whenever I feel like, and at the same time I wouldn’t even be missed all that much.
    It’s just time to relax.

    We’ll see who can join the class next year, who knows… if I had to put my money on someone, today it would be Kaz. One year is long time, and there are many players who won’t go down without putting up a good fight even in the very early stages of MTs – that’s Pokemon Perfect’s mission after all [Collaboration (working together), Competition (getting stronger), and Communication (being informed)]. Uh-uh.

    Until next time.
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2018
  2. lmao joke

    lmao joke Member

    Mar 12, 2018
    Likes Received:
    [Gen 1] OU replay: marcoasd vs. AriiStella ❀ - Pokémon Showdown
    [Gen 1] OU replay: marcoasd vs. AriiStella ❀ - Pokémon Showdown

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    star, EB0LA and marcoasd like this.
  3. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

    Jul 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    Prime example of unprocessable garbage
  4. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

    Sep 29, 2015
    Likes Received:
    Honesty (objectivity ?) is definitely appreciated, it's always good to read something about yourself, and it's even better when it's written by somebody who understands what's going on. I don't believe people who say SPL Power Rankings are about ranking teams. This thread is a good read btw, so I want to give back by giving my perspective (about myself obv, I didn't get to follow this SPL as much as last year in both general and RBY, I didn't even know the records at the end)

    About the retain: It didn't turn out as great as last year (obv) but I think you're a bit too vehement about it, 16k is not what you pay for a 5-4 (huehue), sure, but one one side paying a certain amount of money doesn't guarantee anything, and I would like to point out a couple things that happen in the backstage:

    The retain wasn't a brainless "Went 8-1, gotta retain", we knew the pool was gonna be harder than last year, but keep in mind the retain was official before GGFan and yourself signed up, which changes things a lot. Also, some players improved more than what I expected. We also thought Smogon was still gonna do a terrible job at picking its RBYers, meaning players like Roudolf or Diegolh might be left out despite how good they are. And then you have all the human side (It's just a game after all): we had a great time last year and wanted to be together again. Now that's its done, was it a good choice ? It probably had less than a 50% chance of turning out "great" (5-4 is not a terrible result). Do we (I ?) regret it ? No. Will I be retained next year if RBY is still there ? I would refuse

    Also ye the being busy part happened at the worst possible timing, and when things happen irl and you have to set your priorities, mons aren't as appealing anymore, my motivation definitely wasn't at its peak. Thankfully, my first set against Alexander lit the flame back, just like my set against GGFan in Wcopp lit something back at a time with similar circumstances. I view the game as it's meant to be: I played SPL for the fun of it, simply enjoying high level games on a big stage, without worrying about the result. In terms of playing my games, I had more fun this year, in terms of the tournament in general, the emotion, the team and its mates, it was 10 times better last year.

    "Being friendzoned by luck" I like the term. I definitely ran below your expected value of RNG but:
    1/ It's what happens over the course of less than 10 pokemon games
    2/ It was more the little luck in crucial spots than a general bad run
    3/ Stronger adversary means variance is stronger

    And I mean if you look at my series against Alexander I had the shorter end of the stick but he prepared better and worked on getting better match-ups, which he got, while I just picked teams I liked, so he got more chances to get the good side of the coin, which he did, who's fault is it ?

    About the risk thing: I'm sometimes astonished by the awful risk/reward of plays certain players make. I don't think I fit into the "Level 0 play" category too much compared to other players but I try to gain the advantage in the plan thing, not in random predictions where the value you gain if you're right is less important than the awful position you get into (uselessly) if you call it wrong. Doesn't mean I only made perfect choices, but I think going for the "prediction" is often overrated, and if you look closely at the way I play my endgames, you'll notice that the "predictions" I make aren't flashy, but they're usually the right choice... The pool is definitely becoming stronger, so adding more risks and adrenaline as you say is definitely something I should look into more often. As I said on your Rhydon thread, the days of winning because you play RBY better than your opponent are disappearing, now you need to actually beat your opponent (sounds weird somehow lol). Am I a 4-4 guy or a 8-1 guy ? Neither, I think being a 12-5 guy is more accurate and suits reality better

    Anyway I have a choice now. The reason why I crushed last year was because I was among the 3 best players in every tournament I entered (as well as positive variance to actually win instead of just going far constantly), I built that edge by working on my game literally every day, I've stopped doing that months ago and the consequences are starting to show. Do I want to simply play a tournament here and there and accept that people caught up, or is it time to go back into the lab to try and get ahead of the curve again ?

    Thx for thread
    Finchinator, Isa, Chrysalis and 3 others like this.
  5. marcoasd

    marcoasd P.I.P. PLAY IN PEACE Host Emeritus

    Jul 17, 2013
    Likes Received:
    Yeah, I saw that coming ;D

    That's true, but that wasn't a big factor for me: I knew that the scond part of that sentence was going to happen.
    I would've put 3K on Troller or Roudolf, or even X on Bedschibaer (I guess 5K would've been enough) anyway.
    I knew and they didn't, just like I don't know most things about players in later generations and that's why I got an ass-man for that exact purpose in PPL.

    And these are reasons why I swear a lot - you got to experience the malice and variety of them. Every tournament (season, year or whatever it is) there are a few players players who get the best end of it, so... If they're good and you are as well, what about getting a lot of variance going your way? Sounds good!

    This is the kind of acceptable "pseudo-luck". When a game comes down to a Tauros ditto or things like that and you lose... read above. They're 1-0 and you're 0-1, they go on to win the MT and you're flat out eliminated in an early round. You might get benched under certain circumstances.
    It's a big swing at times.

    Well, all in all about everything you wrote makes perfect sense.
    Chrysalis and Disaster Area like this.
  6. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

    May 4, 2014
    Likes Received:
    u can't add peas
    8-1 + 5-4 = 13-5
  7. GGFan

    GGFan Member

    May 25, 2013
    Likes Received:
    "the final score wasn’t kind with him, so I’ll just jump to my conclusion - he did fine."

    I went 12-9 this year (I count wins in sets that I lost). As for sets won, I think it's pretty much universally agreed that I should have went 6-2, but I'll take 4-4 given the quality of my opponents.

    "Summing it up: great comeback."

    A major reason I got drafted over Troller was because people on the Sharks roster considered me among the top 3 or 4 RBY players in the tour. This was due largely to what a great year 2017 was for me (130 tour wins, went deep in RBY WC, winning record in all three tournaments of champions, finals of Fuchsia Cup, etc). SPL wasn't a comeback; rather, it was a test to see if I could keep it going. I ended up winning over 10 games, which was good albeit slightly disappointing, as I should have won 14 and ended up getting swept by roudolf thanks partially to horrible luck with a damage roll. 15 was well within the realm of possibility. Oh well, overall it was a solid performance.
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018

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