RBY Ban Metronome?

It just occurred to me that Metronome has a 1/163 * 1/151 chance of causing a desync via copying Psywave and rolling zero damage. Should Metronome be banned under the same rationale as Psywave was?

 

I think the answer is a clean yes.

 

Those odds are insane and Metronome is fun. I'd rather do a "soft ban" if anything, where you can use Metronome but if that scenario gets enacted, the sim recognizes it and alerts the player, and the player who used Metronome gets DQed. So if you want to use Metronome you can but you take a risk (a ridiculously small risk) that it could be an instant loss for you.

 

We probably ought to do the same w/ Psywave then. Probably best to ban both for now until we can code it so that should it desync you are alerted to it.

Tagging Enigami resident code-master

 

- I didn't start this thread with strong feelings one way or the other; I just thought it should probably be discussed.

- The "soft ban" idea is fairly solid if it can be done. If it can be wrangled, it's possibly worth considering for other stuff as well (it's certainly a damn sight better than mechanical Sleep/Freeze Clause).

 

I think a soft ban on this is much easier to code and implement than a soft version of those clauses

 

Is Metronome even played at all? Which tier(s)?

 

Yeah Metronome is never used but then neither is Psywave really.

(also I did the odds on Metronome and it probably won't ever be useful)

 

Bide can cause desyncs too, as can Mirror Move'd Partial Trapping.

Not sure what to do about the latter but I think banning Bide / Metronome for now makes sense until we can implement some sort of rule where if you desync the game you lose.

 

That reminds me, is there an explicit ban on stuff that can lead to divide-by-zero error (i.e., Pokemon with <15 Defence/Special stats, or Reflect + Def-booster + 128/171/205/256/342 Defence)?

(Metronome can do that, too, but there's enough other stuff involved that banning Metronome isn't the only way to avoid it.)

 

There isn't. Not sure what we should do about that but I think at level 100 there's almost no ways of triggering it? may be possible w metronome idk

 

Hmm so here's a list of ways to desync:
Psywave - RNG chance
Bide - scenario where using bide and the opp faints (so, by recoil or status damage)
Metronome - Causing Psywave to RNG
Rollover - can't be triggered when running max DVs & EVs
Mirror Move - mirroring partial trapping.
Counter - important detail is that it's entirely avoidable so we don't need to model it on the simulator.

Practical Current Solutions:
Psywave / Bide / Metronome could be banned to deal with the first 3.
Enforce max HP/Def/SpD DVs & EVs (RIP Enigimmicks)
Should we ban Mirror Move too? It seems like the logical solution, but it's worth noting that this would affect a few Pokemon in lower tiers...

Ideal Solution:
In instance of a desync being triggered, game would make the person who causes the desync lose.

 

The divide-by-zero doesn't cause a desync. The game just hangs.

Banning [Acid Armor/Barrier/Defense Curl/Harden/Withdraw] + Reflect on the same set, and banning stats under 16, would also block it.