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Pokémon Who was the best in gen 1?

Discussion in 'Chat' started by Roostur, Aug 18, 2018.

  1. Roostur

    Roostur Member

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    In gen 2, everyone knows that a player named Celia was regarded as the best in the game’s most popular era.

    When gen 1 was at the height of its popularity, who was considered the best?
     
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  2. GGFan

    GGFan Member

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    What does "popular" mean in this context? The era which saw the greatest abundance of tournaments? The time in which the playerbase was flourishing? The days when RBY and GSC were the only extent gens? Perhaps if you could be more specific, people could give you a concrete answer. Celia might be considered the best when looked at with one particular set of lens, but another would give you an entirely different perspective.

    As for RBY, I prefer breaking it down into several distinct periods and analyzing it that way--the game has transformed considerably since its antiquated and broken beginnings. For the sake of brevity (moreso because I write this message under the exigencies of time), I would say the greatest players of each era would be...

    The Azureheights era (2000-2005): GGFan
    The Renaissance (2006-2010): GGFan
    The Dark Ages (2011-2012): Crystal
    The Revival (2013-2014): GGFan
    The dawn of Pokémon Perfect (2014-2017): marcoasd, Alexander, Peasounay
    RBY Globalization (2018-???): roudolf, Troller
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  3. Roostur

    Roostur Member

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    I like what you did here with the time periods. I don't really like the way that you try to make "the best" sound subjective though. I understand that there could be arguments made about whether which of the top 3 players of any given time period were the best (because their consistency in winning might be a little close to call), but who the tip top players are shouldn't be disputed in a competitive game where we can measure who the best players are by consistency in winning. Consistency in winning is the measurement I'm using, are you using the same measurement in your analysis of these time periods?
     
  4. GGFan

    GGFan Member

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    It is subjective because, as I said before, not everybody will judge a player using the same exact criteria. You say you use consistency as your measuring stick, but consistency based on what? How many tournaments did Celia win? What was his winning percentage? How long did he play? How developed was the playerbase back then compared to now? How do his achievements stack up against the achievements of those who succeeded him? You have to factor in all of these questions and more, I believe, if you truly want a solid answer as opposed to a vague one.

    Another question comes into mind here: how educated are you on the history of competitive GSC, really? I don't ask this to insult you or doubt your knowledge; rather, I would appreciate it if you could expound on your reasoning as to why Celia is the greatest GSC player of all time. It would be interesting to learn more, as this is a lofty statement to make, I think. I can only provide detailed historical analysis on the RBY side, sadly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  5. Roostur

    Roostur Member

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    Yes this is all about rby. I'm only educated about celia through old posts, and older players talking about him. I can say just from seeing his signature team, if i had no other information about him except what his signature build was, just by that team I'd already put him above most players. James g says he was the best there was and i trust him, there are also old posts on game faqs calling him the "stall god" . And Borat has said in the past that "stall lets worst players win" and "celia isn't that good" "if i had a time machine, i'd go back to gsc's prime and be the best" and if i put two and two together it seems to me that borat was also one of his victims, and borat wasn't happy about it. I also watched him play james g with a solo ice team and that was extremely impressive to say the least (and james g won a master tournament not too far back, to answer your question about how'd he stack up against the competition today). And this is coming from a spectator who was one of the best gsc players for a while. All of these little pieces of evidence, along with all the information james g has told me, points to the conclusion that he really was the best of that era. Best as in he destroyed everyone.

    I just wanted to know if there was a celia like character, or maybe two or three of them, who just destroyed everyone when the population of rby players was at its height.
     
  6. GGFan

    GGFan Member

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    I think over the last five years we've seen quite a few (destroy is a strong word, but every year there's been one player who stood out amongst the rest): me (2013), marcoasd (2014), Alexander (late 2015-2016), Peasounay (2017), roudolf (2018). If you want overall most dominant over the last five years (since the birth of Pokémon Perfect), it's marcoasd, easily. If you want greatest of all time (from the game's beginnings on the PBS/World Championship to now), I imagine you'd get varying answers depending on who you ask, though the amount of people who could give you an educated opinion are few and far between. I'm probably the only one who survived antiquity that was never isolated from the collective, competitive scene.

    One important thing to keep in mind that is that RBY has changed vastly from when it was played 18 years ago. It's practically a different game now, which is partially why I divide the greatest of all time into specific time periods.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
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  7. marcoasd

    marcoasd Host Emeritus

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    A game is more popular right after its release but the playerbase and the tournament scene may reach its best at any given point later - just take a look at TETRIS.
    Don't forget that in 1998 internet wasn't quite as popular as it is today, then other generations came out.

    GGFan's list looks accurate (also, I remember a time when I considered Crystal_ to be the best), but maybe it overlooks what happened on other communities (mostly Smogon) at the same time, and sometimes players playing on different communities just don't meet or don't meet often enough.
    About GSC, I think that Earthworm might be the best player for that tier among those who I've seen (don't know Celia, I would keep an eye on Lavos going forward). On the other hand, it doesn't necessarily mean that he got there on his own - other players might've been more influential shaping the metagame and I just missed that.
    I don't think "best player" is objective at all: sometimes even results are not, let alone something that depends on the criteria you're using and the time frame you happen to be active. The two best players might end up not meeting each others.
     
  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    In the context of PP, unlike all of these other places, we keep data on all of our major tournaments in one centralised place, our spreadsheet. Feel free to pore over the data here; there are many conclusions you can draw from it, depending on how you look at things, and in some ways, data is not a substitute for expert opinion.
     
  9. Stockings

    Stockings Mum stole me darts Member

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    I remember when I got into pokemon people always told me Earthworm was the single greatest player of all time and I'm sure he plays GSC mainly right? I've not looked much into my history so I'm prob wrong tho. (GGFan book 2 soon please)
     

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