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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) What's Their Last?

Discussion in 'Analysis and Research' started by Disaster Area, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    I think some players overstate and others understate the importance of information in RBY 1U, but I've realised that it's not something that's actually often discussed. So I'm going to start this topic with a few questions, that I'm interested to hear players' responses to:
    • Do you normally think about a player's 6th Pokemon during the match, and do you dedicate a lot of time to that question?
    • How do you deduce or guess what an opponent's final Pokemon is? Do you have any tips?
    • Do you adapt your play to the lack of information about an opponent's last Pokemon?
    • How important do you think knowing what the opponent has during the match matters? Do you often have games where the result significantly hangs on what a player's last Pokemon is?
    • Do you think that it's significant that some strategies and team choices have an information disadvantage - for (a more extreme) example, if you run lead Alakazam and a non-lead Jynx, then you give away your full team most matches very early on.
     
  2. Peasounay

    Peasounay qui peut me stopper Host Emeritus

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    Interesting thread, let's go

    I absolutely ask myself the question when playing, and I even ask myself this question before the game starts, what does my opponent usually brings in the 6th slot (and in general) so that I can pick my team and play accordingly. I try to not pick like slowbro vs zap spammers or golem vs vic/cloy users (for example). During a game I try to answer the question of the 6th as soon as possible. My opponent has an anti lead and a stun spore egg, he usually has a 6th that doesn't paralyse (rock, lapras...), he reveals dedge egg ? it might be a twaver in the last slot, oh is it beam ? maybe it's starmie etc but that can be quite player dependent since some only play with two para spreaders. He uses a reflect chansey, chances are that last mon has tbolt.. stuff like that. When the possibility of facing mon X rises, the value of my own mons changes so I try not to cripple what might have a good match-up against the last, if I know I might need to paralyse it then i'll be more cautious with chansey etc There's rarely a lack of information because I think you can always at least rise an odd and diminish another throughout the game. If there still is I just try not to throw away a mon that might simply win me the game in case it's this or that mon, but I don't think i'm a wild player anyway. The less information there is the more paths I'll try to keep open to win, and as the game goes on you can see which paths might be more efficient

    How important is it ? I think it's very important (pre-game and during the game) because if you have more information and if you ask yourself more questions than the opponent you simply increase your chances of winning... A question I often ask myself to determine my opp's last is "if he had this, has there been any spot in the game where he would've sent it ?", which solves a lot. I also try to play accordingly to what my opponent thinks my last is, from what I revealed, how I played, what I tried to pressure, what I was loose/conservative with... It's tough to theorise for this because it's very game and opponent dependent.

    As for your last question I think if you have like a surprise value (mons such as victreebel) it's very important not to send them too early, but if it's standard i don't think it matters that much because if you try hard not to reveal your last mon, you're giving the information that you don't want to reveal it, and from there on your opponent can figure it out etc
     
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  3. Ariel Rebel

    Ariel Rebel #1 rsutton23 Fan Member

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    Answers in the quote.

    Looking at these questions, I realize that I have a lot to learn in this gen. My answers are skewed towards the opponent having last poke Tauros just because it's happened so often over the past few days.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    I mean the context of the question, which very much admittedly is implicit, is assuming that they have lead + big 4, what is their final mon. Most players keep a tauros in the back for most of the game, that's not really a scenario where information matters.
     
  5. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    I think I think about this a good deal less than most players, which definitely isn't good. Having said that, when running something matchup dependent like an Electric, I tend to always assume the worst until I've confirmed otherwise.

    A question I think is really interesting is what kind of deductions do you make from the rest of their team? I think their status plan is a big one- if they're really pushing for a freeze you can usually assume that their last pokemon isn't a physical attacker as they aren't compatible with a freeze oriented approach imo. If we're assuming a big 4 team then the lead spot probably yields the most information- Gengar can potentially be a sign that they're running something weak to wrap, or possibly that they aren't as well equipped to deal with Jynx. If they're leading Star or Zam they're probably looking to spread para, but it's notable that Star is far more consistent in luring Chansey, where Zam can sometimes see Egg, although maybe this distinction is splitting hairs. Then there's the matter of defensiveness- Zam and Jynx are both potentially targets for physical attackers so possibly the opponent is running a bulky 5th to compensate.

    Chansey's set can also be fairly telling imo. If it's mono-IB you 100% know that your opponent's unrevealed has Tbolt, which in practice means an electric or StarLap. RaishSey isn't as telling since its not totally useless against opposing water types, so you don't strictly need to fit Tbolt somewhere, but it's still probable imo
     
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  6. TuffHunter

    TuffHunter Member

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    The answer is Tauros. It's always Tauros ;)
     
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    We're talking about the slot that isn't one of the big 4... and if you read the thread you'll realise I already basically had to say that to one person. :/ read the thread next time
     
  8. TuffHunter

    TuffHunter Member

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    I see that my sarcasm was not appreciated. I had read your entire post but not the follow ups, otherwise I would have made an actual detailed response as many of my teams only use 2-3 of the big 4 so I am all about surprises.

    Sadly many people are so predictable that after not having played for 6 months I can see a username and know what team I am facing, or at least that they always run a Golem or Victrebel, etc.
     
  9. dsm77773

    dsm77773 Member

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    A lot of the time their last is Tauros, but we're talking about scenarios where lead (obviously) + big 4 have already been revealed / the opposing player is not running all of the Big 4.
    In such cases I do wonder what's his/her last, especially if I suspect it is a potential threat to my team. The in-battle tips that I get are from the sets the opponent is running, as well as his/her lead choice. If the opponent leads with Jolteon, that's a sign the rest of his/her team might dislike facing Zapdos, and you can further assume the last is not Golem or Rhydon (it's probably something weak to Electrics). If you see Hyper Beam Exeggutor, maybe he/she is trying to lure Alakazam, Chansey or Jynx, so the last might be something like Articuno. Mega Drain Egg, his/her last probably dislikes Starmie. Surflax is a classic Electrics' teammate. And so on.
    Knowing which is their last (or maybe, which is NOT their last), is important mainly because it affects the way you play. Say you suspect the last Pokémon is an unrevealed Zapdos, and you have a Golem in the back. You are probably going to hold off Explosion until Zapdos is revealed and gone, and you'll try to keep Golem reasonably healthy so that the predicted hidden Zapdos doesn't give you headaches. But, if it turns out it wasn't Zapdos, then you've probably missed an opportunity to Explode, or maybe one of your Pokémon took an unnecessary Thunder Wave after Golem (which you tried to keep healthy) was scared off. In any case, the opponent had the advantage here, since you probably didn't need Golem that much and you were over-preserving it, which in turn is an opportunity for the opponent to chip away your team (or a particular teammate) or spread paralysis. However, if you boom Golem mid-game and the opponent later reveals Zapdos, you might have a problem.
    As for the last question, I do suspect it is significant for the reasons stated above, but I haven't got any experience which such strategies.
     
  10. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Could also indicate Gengar. That's the only way I'd feel safe with MD Egg.
     
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  11. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    I dunno about Hyper Beam specifically, but I wouldn't assume Exeggutor with a Normal-type attack (that isn't Explosion) is necessarily trying to lure something, especially since it can sorta do so already by just exploding on them. I find players tend to play well enough that managing to spread paralysis after something takes para/sleep is quite difficult since status absorbers tend to take Psychic really well, so I run a physical attacking Exeggutor so that they can't just come in as they please unless my team really needs the extra paralysis.
     
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