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RBY [Violet] Nidoqueen

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Disaster Area, May 31, 2019.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    Nidoqueen [​IMG]
    Type: Poison / Ground
    Stats: 90 | 92 | 87 | 75 | 85

    Changes In Violet Pertinent To This Analysis:
    - Nidoqueen gains access to Softboiled.
    - Nidoqueen gains 10 base Attack and 9 base Speed.
    - Poison Sting is now 95 BP, with a 30% chance to poison.
    - Bug is not very effective against Poison, and Poison is neutral against Bug.
    - Body Slam can paralyze Normal-types.
    - For a full list of changes in Violet, see this thread.

    Introduction

    With the addition of Softboiled to its moveset, Nidoqueen goes from an extremely niche option in RBY OU to becoming one of the principal defensive behemoths of Violet. It is an excellent answer to another top threat in Aerodactyl, as well as to other Pokemon such as most Electric-types and many Poison-types. Its immunity to poison and Thunder Wave makes it difficult to status, making it even more of a challenge to wear down in any way. Needless to say, a Pokemon which not only answers a myriad of threats in the tier, including one of very best Pokemon out there in Aerodactyl, and does so extremely reliably, is a metagame-defining Pokemon and truly one of the best Pokemon of the tier in its own right.

    Sets


    Standard

    Nidoqueen
    - Softboiled
    - Earthquake
    - Ice Beam / Blizzard
    - Poison Sting / Body Slam / Thunderbolt / Rock Slide / Fire Blast

    Set Details

    Much of Nidoqueen's set is fairly self-explanatory - Softboiled is an excellent recovery move, and Earthquake is a strong and reliable STAB move that is extremely strong against Electric-types besides Zapdos, and against Poison-types such as Gengar and Muk. An Ice-type attack is preferred in the third slot, giving Nidoqueen a strong option against Zapdos, Aerodactyl, as well as other Grass- and Flying-types which resist or are immune to Earthquake. Ice Beam is generally preferred for the higher PP and reliability, but if the final move on the set is an option such as Thunderbolt which also hits Aerodactyl then the tradeoff for Blizzard is more acceptable.

    There are a number of options in the last slot, making Nidoqueen quite customisable to the team it finds itself on, but each option's benefits are fairly marginal - the other 3 moves are far more central to Nidoqueen's ability to function in the tier.

    Poison Sting is a STAB option, notably hitting Pokemon like Butterfree or Grass-types pretty hard, and it has a chance to poison foes. Fire Blast provides Nidoqueen with a similar improvement to its coverage as Poison Sting, but also hits other Bug-types such as Pinsir hard too, and spreads burns rather than poison. As Poison Sting is backed by STAB, however, it does make it a fairly spammable option. Body Slam is an option to spread paralysis against its switch-ins, like Starmie, Poliwrath, and Butterfree. Rock Slide 2HKOs Moltres, but that's only if Moltres hasn't increased its defense with Sky Attack or Reflect, and Nidoqueen isn't burnt. Rock Slide also 3HKOs Butterfree, as does Poison Sting and Fire Blast (in fact Fire Blast has a pretty small chance to 2HKO), but it is an easier move to switch into than STAB Poison Sting, making it less than an ideal move for pressuring its switch-ins. Thunderbolt provides another option against Aerodactyl, and can surprise Gyarados and Poliwrath, netting a 2HKOing the former and a 3HKO on the latter. It also 3HKOs Cloyster, and comes close to a 2HKO. Thunder is stronger but far less reliable and has a chance to 2HKO Poliwrath and Starmie, and 2HKOs Cloyster, but isn't recommended due to the high risk of missing. All of these last move options aren't great for Magneton (which Nidoqueen is a common and excellent switch-in to) to pick up with Mimic - however, it has a 3 in 4 chance to pick up something pretty good, as Earthquake, Softboiled, and Ice-type attacks are all quite useful options on it - and the two attacks help Magneton deter Nidoqueen from switching in again in the future.

    Other Options

    A set with Earthquake, Poison Sting, and Thunderbolt for coverage achieves perfect neutral coverage and can offer some small upsides over any Nidoqueen set carrying Ice Beam or Blizzard, and so deserves some small mention. Beyond that, Nidoqueen doesn't get much worth mentioning. Toxic could be used in the final slot on a Dream Eater-oriented team, while Counter and Reflect have no obvious uses for Nidoqueen yet merit a brief mention.

    Checks and Counters

    Starmie, if unparalyzed, is probably the closest thing to a complete answer to Nidoqueen that exists, as it's not 2HKO'd by any common attack it carries, resists the Ice-type moves Nidoqueen throws out, has instant recovery, outspeeds Nidoqueen, and has the power and coverage to retaliate in return whatever set it chooses to run. However, it's maybe not the best answer to put pressure on the opposing team - while Starmie has quite respectable defensive capabilities, the presence not only of Chansey but of other Psychic-types such as Butterfree and Hypno which can withstand its attacks easily and retaliate rather aggressively diminishes the notion that Starmie is retaliatorily impressive. One Pokemon that stands out as a more threatening response to Nidoqueen is Butterfree. Defensively, Nidoqueen can't 2HKO it, even with super-effective coverage or its neutral STAB, and since it can recover impressive amounts of HP with Leech Life it can keep itself healthy enough to keep taking Nidoqueen on throughout the match. Butterfree's only downside against Nidoqueen is that it is slower, and Poison Sting and the other coverage options it carries still do around 40%, so Butterfree staying healthy against it is critical, and critical hits can be fatal. Offensively, Butterfree's STAB combination is very impressive, and it's backed up by a good selection of status options, and stats adequate to do the job. Another Pokemon excellent at putting the pressure on Nidoqueen is Poliwrath. Although it doesn't resist Earthquake, Poliwrath is only 4HKO'd by the move, it resists most of Nidoqueen's coverage, it can potentially recover HP with Dream Eater, and it's one of the most threatening P0kemon in the tier to repeatedly give turns away to.

    Gyarados, Articuno, and Moltres are both great answers to Nidoqueen, although Nidoqueen can target them with Thunderbolt and Rock Slide, respectively. They both are immune to Earthquake, take Ice-type attacks neutrally, and are offensively threatening in their own right. It should be noted that Nidoqueen outspeeds Gyarados, is outsped by Moltres, and is tied with Articuno. Cloyster isn't immune to Earthquake, but with its high Defense it takes Earthquake easily, fearing only Thunderbolt, so it's a decent check.

    Other than that, other Water- or Psychic-types, like Golduck, Hypno, and Alakazam, are able to switch in on anything besides repeated Earthquakes or some of Nidoqueen's coverage options, and threaten it with super-effective STAB attacks. Grass-types and Pidgeot resist or are immune to Earthquake, but dislike the Ice-type moves and can't do that much to retaliate. Pinsir resists Earthquake and is okay taking some of Nidoqueen's other attacks, and can hit back pretty hard, while Tauros doesn't really want to switch in but threatens Nidoqueen with all of its attacks.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2019
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  2. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Why did you remove the Bug weakness to Poison, anyway? It was the one GSC change that was just absolutely moronic, and made Poison so useless offensively that they eventually made Fairy weak to it for no reason.
     
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    lily wanted to modernise the type chart. As it is poison actually isn't too bad in violet because it's about the only RBY meta where being poison-immune is actually a meaningful upside
     
  4. Lilyhollow

    Lilyhollow Member

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    poison resisting bug (instead of being weak) is super relevant in violet too.

    edit: ok i dunno about 'super' relevant but it's definitely a thing
     
  5. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I said "offensively".
     
  6. Lilyhollow

    Lilyhollow Member

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    basically the impetus behind modernizing the type chart was that ghost doing nothing to psychic was totally unacceptable, and fire not resisting ice was pretty terrible. those changes were happening 100%. if i had only updated those but not bug/poison, i'd get an earful about that (and i personally wouldn't like it anyway). it was pretty clear that the best choice was to just make the whole thing consistent with current gen.

    so yes, one of the results is that poison is better defensively than it was, but not great offensively (though much better than it used to be, actually, since there are actually decent poison type attacks now). i'm happy with different typings having different strengths and weaknesses though!
     
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  7. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    TBQH Ghost being ineffective against Psychic does make a fair degree of sense inasmuch as if anyone's got the strength of will to shrug off the magicy attacks of Ghost, it's Psychics. It's not particularly balanced, but it's hardly nonsense.

    The thing about Poison being nerfed vs. Bug is that, well, BUG SPRAY. Arthropods are vulnerable to poisons in general compared to your average humanoid (most plant alkaloids are there basically as a "do not eat" to insects, which will be fatally poisoned if they take a bite) and especially vulnerable to contact poisons due to having less barriers in place between the external environment and their cells. Poison being super-effective against Bug is as obvious as Water being super-effective against Fire. Removing it made zero sense.

    (OTOH, Bug being super-effective against Poison was pretty dumb.)
     
  8. Lilyhollow

    Lilyhollow Member

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    yeah, it's probably not a choice i would have made if i were designing a game from scratch, i'll give you that.
     
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  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    finished writing this now ^^
     

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