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RBY [Violet] Beedrill

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Disaster Area, Dec 23, 2018.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Beedrill [​IMG]
    Type: Bug / Poison
    Stats: 65 | 80 | 40 | 45 | 130

    Changes In Violet Pertinent To This Analysis:

    - Beedrill gains 50 base speed, bumping it up from 80 to 130
    - Beedrill learns Dream Eater and no longer learns Swords Dance
    - Dream Eater is now a 200 BP, Ghost-Type move, which works against sleeping, poisoned, or badly poisoned targets, healing 100% of damage dealt. Twineedle is now 40 BP per hit, each hit still having a 20% chance to poison (giving it a 36% chance of poisoning each time Twineedle is used). Poison Sting is now 95 BP, with a 30% chance to poison.
    - Bug is not very effective against Poison, and Poison is neutral against Bug.
    - For a full list of changes in Violet, see this thread.

    Introduction

    Beedrill certainly has a ton of flaws - it is frail, weak, and with a very limited typing defensively. However, there are certainly upsides to it now that bolster its effectiveness. The speed increase, firstly, is gigantic for it; now it speed ties with Aerodactyl, and outspeeds every other Pokemon bar Electrode (although in Ultra Violet, Primeape also outspeeds), and its critical hit rate is a little over 25%! The buffs to Twineedle and Poison Sting give it good STABs to use, and their decent respective chances to poison synergise well with Dream Eater. It struggles to compete with Tauros as a revenge killer, however its synergy with a different status strategy helps it find a niche.

    Sets

    Standard

    Beedrill
    - Twineedle
    - Poison Sting
    - Dream Eater
    - Mega Drain / Hyper Beam

    Set Details

    Twineedle and Poison Sting are STABs, and Dream Eater lets it deal impressive damage to poisoned opponents. Mega Drain deals respectable damage to Golem and Kabutops, two quite physically bulky Pokemon resisting its stronger STAB, while Hyper Beam is its strongest move by far against Poison-types besides Gengar, although it has to be used as a finishing move.

    Beedrill is best designed to act as a cleaner, albeit if you can get it in safely (for example, against a sleeping opponent) and fire off free attacks, it can act as a breaker of sorts. Compared with Tauros, which acts similarly, Beedrill has the upside of markedly higher speed, and it synergises with Dream Eater-focused teams (typically spreading more poison than paralysis), but it is far easier to wall than Tauros.

    Other Options

    Beedrill has a fair number of other options it could use in the final slot rather than Mega Drain or Hyper Beam. For example, Double-Edge lets it hit and run against Poison-type switch-ins, however Nidoqueen can recover off the damage dealt with Softboiled, and the recoil will be significant against Muk, due to Muk's high base HP compared to Beedrill. Agility is an option, which, rather than providing it additional (yet still saddeningly limited) coverage, enables it to counteract paralysis. Finally, Toxic is worth mentioning, but as it spreads status somewhat reliably through its attacks anyway, it's not recommended.

    Checks and Counters

    Gengar is the best answer. As it can't be poisoned, it can only he hurt by Dream Eater if it is asleep. It resists Poison Sting, Twineedle, Mega Drain, and is immune to all other Beedrill attacks, so it is an extraordinarily good answer to Beedrill so long as it is awake. In fact, Poison-types in general are excellent Beedrill answers, due to their immunity to being poisoned, in combination with their resistance to Bug and Poison, meaning that unless they are asleep, Beedrill can do very little damage to them, except with Hyper Beam (or Double-Edge). Nidoqueen is particularly good at answering Beedrill, in fact, due to its access to Softboiled and quadruple resistance to Poison.

    Beyond Poison-types, Normal-types are notable for their immunity to Dream Eater, Ground- and Rock-types for their resistance to Poison, and Flying-, Fire-, and Fighting-types for their resistance to Bug. Aerodactyl, in particular, resists both Bug and Poison and speed ties Beedrill. Ghost-types other than Gengar (i.e. Golduck) resist both Bug- and Poison-type attacks, but due to their weakness to Dream Eater they become ineffecive as Beedrill answers once poisoned.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2019
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  2. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    That's a Violet's change, right? I'm sure that in original RBY, only the last hit has a chance to poison the foe.
     
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    I don't know the RBY mechanics, but I know the violet mechanics \shrug/
     
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  4. Lilyhollow

    Lilyhollow Member

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    Uh hm... I don't know how this actually functions in the current implementation of Violet. Actually, I'm not sure how it functioned ever. However, whatever it is in RBY or in the current implementation of Violet, the intent is for the poison chance to apply to each hit.
     
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  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Enigami maybe we should check to see how this is working
     
  6. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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  7. Lilyhollow

    Lilyhollow Member

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    That's a really good catch, thank you! I somehow didn't consider that that'd be how it worked in RBY!
     
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  8. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    with twineedle
    does it have 20% chance to poison on each atk
    or just 20% overall
    ?
    SceptrossToday at 16:54
    20% on the second attack
    which means 20% overall in practice

    I asked in the RBY development chat I'm in (people like crystal_ etc in there) and that's what they're saying too
     
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  9. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    Yeah, multihits moves are just odd on RBY. Same damage for each hit, even if if's crit... Twineedle's poison couldn't be different xD
     

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