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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Victreebel [Done]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Ortheore, Jul 17, 2015.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Victreebel[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Type: Grass / Poison
    Stats: 80 | 105 | 65 | 100 | 70

    Introduction

    Victreebel is a Pokemon with great potential, but tapping that potential can unfortunately be very difficult. It is able to inflict both paralysis and sleep while also possessing the coveted move Wrap in conjunction with respectable offensive stats. Furthermore, it is able to run two distinctly different sets, a rare trait in RBY. These traits make it a formidable threat, but thy are counterbalanced by its middling Speed and the fact that it’s crippled by paralysis. Furthermore, it provides almost no defensive synergy to a team; STAB Razor Leaf means it’s the best in the game at KOing Slowbro, but beyond that, its lack of resistances make it extremely difficult to switch in.

    Wrap

    Victreebel
    - Sleep Powder
    - Wrap
    - Razor Leaf
    - Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

    Set Details

    This is the more consistent of Victreebel’s sets, and aims to spread status throughout the opposing team then gradually wear them down with Wrap. Sleep Powder is used because sleep is incredibly potent in RBY and reliable users are few and far between. Wrap prevents the foe from attacking Victreebel and gradually wears down opposing teams. Razor Leaf decimates Rock- and Water-types that might otherwise wall Victreebel. Stun Spore is the top choice, as paralysis is incredibly useful for a Wrap user, while Hyper Beam is another valid option, making Victreebel a much more potent sweeper, though it is also a little more support dependent.

    Swords Dance

    Victreebel
    - Swords Dance
    - Hyper Beam
    - Razor Leaf
    - Sleep Powder / Body Slam / Stun Spore

    Set Details

    This set aims to surprise players expecting the Wrap set and blast holes through a paralysed opposing team. Swords Dance boosts Victreebel’s attack to dangerous levels. Hyper Beam hits extremely hard after a boost. Razor Leaf complements this by taking down Rock- and Water-types. Body Slam provides a consistent source of damage if a foe is not in Hyper Beam KO range, while status is also an excellent option that supports both itself and the rest of the team.

    Other Options

    If you feel your team is already capable of putting something to sleep, you can drop Sleep Powder for another move, such as Hyper Beam. You can also try fitting Wrap and Swords Dance on the same set, though be mindful that the more gradual damage of Wrap can make it easier to play around. In a similar vein, for the Swords Dance set, you could try dropping Hyper Beam rather than Body Slam for status, though Victreebel lose a lot of power if you do so

    Checks and Counters


    Gengar is a hard counter, resisting Razor Leaf and being immune to Normal-type attacks. It can then KO Victreebel with either Night Shade or the rare Psychic. Paralysis is the number one priority when facing Victreebel, particularly the Wrap set. Zapdos, Exeggutor, and Articuno all possess good bulk and resist Razor Leaf, and they can 2HKO with super effective STAB attacks. It is important to note that Articuno is incapable of paralysing, while Exeggutor is outsped. Jynx, Starmie, and Alakazam all struggle to switch in, but they outspeed Victreebel and hit it hard, while Starmie and Alakazam can also paralyse it. Chansey has good overall bulk and access to both Thunder Wave and Ice Beam, but it is outsped and fears Swords Dance. Similarly, Snorlax has good bulk and hits back hard, but it too is outsped.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2017
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    In OO you can mention you can bluff like a lord and run my set once in a while over the SD/Razor Leaf/HB/Sleep Powder.. by replacing HB with Stun Spore and running SD and no physical strats. I think i made it work vs marco maybe? I did have a couple of days of vic slaughter ages ago. It's kinda funny but not something you use at all often.

    I'd also note that one has to be conscious of it in preparing when using a slow team such as with slowbro + golem / rhydon, as keeping say lead alakazam (something you might well run) healthy is key to beating victreebel - and failing to do that often means having to risk tauros of all things versus the Tulip Menace. Especially if u run like Zam/Bro/Rhy or Gol/Tau/Chans/Lax. That really requires careful play, especially as alakazam is usually slept or para'd - beware!

    Jynx is an important check too tbqh.

    With Vic you either have to run full wrap with dragonite and cloyster (either set can work on it tbh) or you use it as an alternative sleeper over eggy. Its frailty does make it a bit of a challenge to use but a sleeper this hard to block (scaring chansey with SD+HB+Sleep powder is fun :D) has its benefits. Most players generally opt to remove shitty egg for vic. Extra care for alakazam should be taken i guess? Teams that can para jynx off the bat are really very useful. For the most part though you're just pairing it with standards. Just beware of letting zam take sleep or something and then only having chansey to cope with specials say. But in a way it's not really something you should go out of your way in thinking about how you fit it, instead think about how you want to play it.

    SD/HB/Rleaf/Sleep Powder imo main set it's just an incredibly hard to block sleeper that can sweep to some degree too.
     
  3. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    Yeah I usually prefer to lead Gengar on Rock/Bro teams, since it's a pretty effective response to Bel even if you let it get status'd. Relying on a healthy Zam is just way too unreliable since in the lead spot it will usually cop status and not letting it take status is usually not playing it to its potential, all for the sake of a relatively rare threat.

    In all honesty I don't think I've ever run Bel on a non-wrap team. I might have one team saved with SD Bel on it that isn't full wrap but I don't think I've ever used it.

    In terms of teammates Cloy is an obvious one since it lures in aquatics, Clamps and gives Bel a free switch into something it scares out. I've never seen the appeal behind running Dnite with the other wrappers tho. Like Cloy+Bel still needs a special sponge alongside it as well as anti-electric support, while something for opposing Wrap and a backup physical check are cool to have as well. Dnite provides practically none of those things so I've never seen it as being worth it.

    Thinking about fitting Bel on an otherwise standard team, I agree with replacing Egg for the most part, which means you've got to make up that physical bulk elsewhere on the team, which makes stuff like Bro and Lap cool partners I guess, especially since Bro lures in other Waters and paras them for Bel.

    Also I wouldn't go so far as to call that set the main one, but I can definitely see the appeal it does look pretty cool, I'll have to try it sometime.
     
    Disaster Area likes this.
  4. Sobi

    Sobi hi Member

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    Victreebel[​IMG]
    Type: Grass / Poison
    Stats: 80 | 105 | 65 | 100 | 70

    Introduction

    Victreebel is a Pokemon with great potential, but tapping that potential can unfortunately be very difficult. It is able to inflict both paralysis and sleep while also possessing the coveted move Wrap in conjunction with respectable offensive stats. Furthermore, it is able to run two distinctly different sets, a rare trait in RBY. These traits make it a formidable threat, but thy are counterbalanced by its middling Speed and the fact that it’s crippled by paralysis. Furthermore, it provides almost no defensive synergy to a team; STAB Razor Leaf means it’s the best in the game at KOing Slowbro, but beyond that, its lack of resistances make it extremely difficult to switch in.

    Wrap

    Victreebel
    - Sleep Powder
    - Wrap
    - Razor Leaf
    - Stun Spore / Hyper Beam

    Set Details

    This is the more consistent of Victreebel’s sets, and aims to spread status throughout the opposing team then gradually wear them down with Wrap. Sleep Powder is used because sleep is incredibly potent in RBY and reliable users are few and far between. Wrap prevents the foe from attacking Victreebel and gradually wears down opposing teams. Razor Leaf decimates Rock- and Water-types that might otherwise wall Victreebel. Stun Spore is the top choice, as paralysis is incredibly useful for a Wrap user, while Hyper Beam is another valid option, making Victreebel a much more potent sweeper, though it is also a little more support dependent.

    Swords Dance

    Victreebel
    - Swords Dance
    - Hyper Beam
    - Razor Leaf
    - Body Slam / Sleep Powder / Stun Spore

    Set Details

    This set aims to surprise players expecting the Wrap set and blast holes through a paralysed opposing team. Swords Dance boosts Victreebel’s attack to dangerous levels. Hyper Beam hits extremely hard after a boost. Razor Leaf complements this by taking down Rock- and Water-types. Body Slam provides a consistent source of damage if a foe is not in Hyper Beam KO range, while status is also an excellent option that supports both itself and the rest of the team.

    Other Options

    If you feel your team is already capable of putting something to sleep, you can drop Sleep Powder for another move, such as Hyper Beam. You can also try fitting Wrap and Swords Dance on the same set, though be mindful that the more gradual damage of Wrap can make it easier to play around. In a similar vein, for the Swords Dance set, you could try dropping Hyper Beam rather than Body Slam for status, though Victreebel lose a lot of power if you do so

    Checks and Counters

    Gengar is a hard counter, resisting Razor Leaf and being immune to Normal-type attacks. It can then KO Victreebel with either Night Shade or the rare Psychic. Paralysis is the number one priority when facing Victreebel, particularly the Wrap set. Zapdos, Exeggutor, and Articuno all possess good bulk and resist Razor Leaf, and they can 2HKO with super effective STAB attacks. It is important to note that Articuno is incapable of paralysing, while Exeggutor is outsped. Jynx, Starmie, and Alakazam all struggle to switch in, but they outspeed Victreebel and hit it hard, while Starmie and Alakazam can also paralyse it. Chansey has good overall bulk and access to both Thunder Wave and Ice Beam, but it is outsped and fears Swords Dance. Similarly, Snorlax has good bulk and hits back hard, but it too is outsped.
    - just some minor stuff w/ commas, but overall a good read. implement this and gp 1/1. then mark this as "Done".
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2016
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    I think Sleep Powder should be the first slash in the last slot on the SD set. Sleep Powder gives it a valuable set-up opportunity which is otherwise difficult to generate.
     
    Ortheore and Enigami like this.
  6. lord of the crabs

    lord of the crabs Member

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    So does everyone who uses Victreebel replace Exeggutor with it? And never use both of them? I have no experience with using Victreebel so I'm clueless here, but using both of them sounds interesting. Victreebel could open up an opportunity for Exeggutor to use a set without Sleep Powder. Or even with both of them having Sleep Powder, you get more options for your early game, ie Victreebel goes in when you predict the enemy to switch to Exeggutor, Exeggutor goes in when you have to take a hit on the switch.

    Tbh everyone is talking about how great Victreebel is yet I've never seen it used once by good players, so I would like to learn more about it in general. There's not a lot of discussion in this thread.
     
  7. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    The problem with Victreebel + Exeggutor is that you have two weaknesses to Zapdos, and that adding a Rock to mitigate that then means you have three weaknesses to Ice. There are ways around this, but that's the usual reason people don't run both.
     
    lord of the crabs likes this.
  8. lord of the crabs

    lord of the crabs Member

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    Yea, I tried some games with Jolteon lead and boltbeam Chansey to alleviate the weakness to Zapdos, Starmie, Lapras and Cloyster a bit. I think I lost every match though.

    Does anyone have any good replays where Victreebel does really well, I would like to see how to use it in action and also in what kind of team comps people use it in.
     
  9. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Furr and Power Member

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    ancient history but RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) - Special Techniques! | Pokémon Perfect (post 2)

    people run a hell of a lot of different team comps to good effect, it has traits that really do the opposite of pinning it down to a limited team composition, though it's also more difficult to run alongside the big 4 than most other highly viable pokemon
     
  10. Lusch

    Lusch A critical hit! Member

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    lord of the crabs
    The teamcomposition that brought success to multiple players in tournaments is this one:
    Starmie / Rhydon / Victreebel / Chansey / Snorlax / Tauros
    It's just a good way to incoorperate Victreebel into a team. Rhydon Starmie Victreebel work well together. The other three are the best Pokemon in the game... Victreebel uses Wrap on that team the vast mojority of the time [just to make sure] (as you can tell, I did not feel like elaborating a lot. Try it, and if you have questions you can ask)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
    FriendOfMrGolem120 likes this.

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