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GSC OU (OverUsed) Viable movesets in GSC OU

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Sceptross, Jul 16, 2018.

  1. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    Hello everyone,

    I'm writing this thread in an attempt to push GSC analysis forward. GSC is probably the worst gen when it comes to quality resources to get started in, since Smogon's resources are terribly outdated and PP only has analysis on 4 Pokemons (Snorlax, Zapdos (courtesy of yours truly and the person that has yet to lose a single GSC game in a PP tournament), Misdreavus (interestingly enough, written by someone who was not born yet when the games initially came out) and the Charizard analysis kindly provided to us by Roostur).

    One of the best ways to get a very big task done without feeling demotivated is to split it into small, easy to understand and objective tasks. In order words, convert intentions into goals. So, following this principle, I decided to try to compile a list of every common set for each Pokemon regularly used in OU that still needs an analysis. The idea is that one of two things happens:
    • People decide to write an analysis on a Pokemon and come to this thread for a place to start.
    • People write an analysis on a specific moveset of a Pokemon only. Then, once all sets are written, someone writes an introduction, standardizes the style of writing and it's good to go.
    I invite anyone to complete this list with any relevant set they think of. The idea is to make this list as complete as possible with sets that are common enough to not fall into the "other options" section of an individual analysis.


    [​IMG] Raikou [​IMG]
    - RestTalk (Rest / Sleep Talk / Thunder or Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice, Water)
    - RoarKou (Rest / Thunder or Thunderbolt / Reflect or Hidden Power Ice, Water / Roar)
    - DualAttackReflect (Rest / Reflect / Thunder or Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Ice, Water)


    [​IMG] Exeggutor [​IMG]
    - Stun Spore (Stun Spore / Explosion or Leech Seed / Psychic / Giga Drain or Hidden Power Fire)
    - Sleep Powder (Sleep Powder / Explosion / Psychic / Giga Drain or Hidden Power Fire or Stun Spore)
    - 3 attacks (Psychic, Hidden Power Fire, Giga Drain, Explosion or Leech Seed)
    - SubSeed ( Stun Spore / Substitute / Leech Seed / Psychic)


    [​IMG]Gengar [​IMG]
    - Standard (Explosion or Destiny Bond / Thunder or Thunderbolt / Ice Punch / DynamicPunch or Hypnosis)
    - PerishTrap (Mean Look / Perish Song / Protect / Thunder or Thunderbolt or Confuse Ray)


    [​IMG] Skarmory [​IMG]
    - Standard (Drill Peck, Rest, Whirlwind, Curse or Toxic or Thief)
    - RestTalk (Drill Peck, Curse or Toxic, Sleep Talk, Rest)
    Other options: Sand Attack


    [​IMG] Machamp [​IMG]
    - Curse + 3 attacks (Curse / Cross Chop / Rock Slide / Earthquake or Fire Blast or Hidden Power Bug, Flying, Ghost)
    - RestTalk (Rest / Sleep Talk / Cross Chop / Curse or Rock Slide or Fire Blast)


    [​IMG] Marowak [​IMG]
    - SD + 3 attacks (Swords Dance / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Bug, Flying or Fire Blast)
    - Rest (Rest / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Swords Dance or Sleep Talk)
    OOs: Mention the 4 attack set (Earthquake, Rock Slide, Body Slam, Fire Blast)


    [​IMG] Nidoking [​IMG]
    - Standard (Lovely Kiss or Thief / Earthquake / Ice Beam / Thunder)
    Other Options: Counter, Roar, Fire Blast, Morning Sun


    [​IMG] Steelix [​IMG]
    - Standard (Roar / Earthquake / Curse or Body Slam or Toxic / Explosion)
    - Rock Slide (Roar / Earthquake / Curse / Rock Slide)


    [​IMG] Tyranitar [​IMG]
    - Pursuit (Roar or Screech / Rock Slide / Fire Blast or Earthquake / Pursuit)
    - Curse (Curse / Rock Slide / Earthquake or Rest / Roar)
    - Anti-lead (Rock Slide / Earthquake / Thunderbolt / DynamicPunch)
    - Defensive Pursuiter (Rock Slide / Pursuit / Curse or Roar / Rest)


    [​IMG]Vaporeon [​IMG]
    - Standard (Rest / Growth / Hydro Pump or Surf / Sleep Talk or Ice Beam or Roar)
    - Acid Armor (Rest / Growth / Hydro Pump or Surf / Acid Armor)
    Other options: Baton Pass (Not very fun to face a +1 Zapdos is it?)


    [​IMG] Forretress [​IMG]
    - Standard (Spikes / Rapid Spin / Toxic or Giga Drain / Giga Drain or Explosion or Hidden Power Fire, Bug, Ghost)
    - Spinnerless (Spikes, Toxic, Hidden Power Fire, Explosion)


    [​IMG]Heracross[​IMG]
    - RestTalk (Rest / Sleep Talk / Megahorn / Seismic Toss or Curse)
    Other options: Earthquake


    [​IMG] Miltank [​IMG]
    - Standard (Milk Drink / Body Slam / Heal Bell / Growl)
    Other options: Seismic Toss, Curse


    [​IMG]Starmie [​IMG]
    - Rapid Spin (Rapid Spin / Recover / Surf / Psychic or Thunder Wave or Thunder)
    Other options: Reflect / Light Screen


    [​IMG] Suicune [​IMG]
    - Standard (Rest / Surf / Toxic / Roar)
    - RestTalk (Surf / Toxic or Roar or Ice Beam, Rest, Sleep Talk)
    Other options: Mirror Coat


    [​IMG] Umbreon [​IMG]
    - Pursuit (Pursuit / Rest or Moonlight / Charm / Toxic)
    - RestTalk (Rest / Sleep Talk / Charm / Pursuit)
    - TrapPass (Mean Look / Baton Pass / Charm / Rest or Moonlight)
    Other Options: Zap Cannon


    [​IMG] Jynx [​IMG]
    - Lovely Kiss (Lovely Kiss / Substitute or Thief / Psychic / Ice Beam)
    Other options: PerishTrap (Mean Look, Perish Song, Protect or Attract, Ice Beam)


    [​IMG] Rhydon [​IMG]
    - Standard (Curse / Roar / Earthquake / Rock Slide)
    Other options: Zap Cannon, Counter, Rest


    [​IMG] Tentacruel [​IMG]
    - Rapid Spin (Rapid Spin / Sludge Bomb / Surf / Curse or Screech)
    - Swords Dance (Swords Dance / Hydro Pump or Surf / Sludge Bomb / Substitute)
    Other options: Mirror Coat


    [​IMG] Blissey [​IMG]
    - Setup fodder Standard (Softboiled / Heal Bell / Light Screen or Toxic / Ice Beam or Flamethrower or Fire Blast or Sing)
    Other options: Growl


    [​IMG] Dragonite [​IMG]
    - Defensive (Rest / Haze / Sleep Talk or Body Slam/ Reflect)
    - Offensive (Ice Punch / Thunder / DynamicPunch /Thunder Wave)
    Other options: Hidden Power Flying

    [​IMG] Golem [​IMG]
    - Spinner (Rapid Spin / Roar or Fire Blast / Earthquake / Explosion)
    We can list a Curse set but it's probably not worth it since Rhydon does it better.

    [​IMG] Jolteon [​IMG]
    - Baton Passer (Agilty or Growth / Baton Pass / Thunder or Thunderbolt / Hidden Power Water)
    - Growth Sweeper ( Growth / Thunderbolt or Thunder / Hidden Power Grass, Ice, Water / Thunder Wave or Baton Pass)

    [​IMG] Muk [​IMG]
    - Curse (Sludge Bomb / Curse / Fire Blast / Explosion)
    Other options: Giga Drain

    [​IMG] Porygon2 [​IMG]
    - Standard (Curse or Thunder Wave / Return or Double Edge / Ice Beam / Recover)


    [​IMG] Charizard [​IMG]
    - Belly Drum (Belly Drum / Fire Blast / Earthquake / Rock Slide)
    I'm listing this here because the current analysis doesn't have this set and this set is the most widely used.

    [​IMG] Clefable [​IMG]
    - Belly Drum (Return / Belly Drum / Moonlight / Encore or Fire Blast or Shadow Ball)


    [​IMG] Espeon [​IMG]
    - Standard (Psychic / Growth / Morning Sun / Baton Pass or Hidden Power Water, Fire)


    [​IMG] Kangaskhan [​IMG]
    - Standard (Return / Curse / Roar / Substitute)


    [​IMG] Meganium [​IMG]
    - Support (Reflect or Light Screen / Leech Seed / Razor Leaf / Synthesis)
    Other options: Swords Dance (Earthquake, Body Slam, Swords Dance, Synthesis)


    [​IMG]Quagsire [​IMG]
    - Belly Drum (Belly Drum / Earthquake / Rest / Hidden Power Rock or Sludge Bomb)
    Other options: Protect (instead of Rest)


    [​IMG] Smeargle [​IMG]
    - Baton Pass (Agility / Baton Pass / Spore / Substitute)
    - Spikes (Spore / Spikes / Mirror Coat / Destiny Bond)


    [​IMG] Donphan [​IMG]
    - Rapid Spin (Earthquake / Rapid Spin / Encore / Toxic)


    [​IMG] Houndoom [​IMG]
    - Standard (Pursuit / Fire Blast / 2 of Crunch or Counter or Thief)
    - SunnyBeam (Sunny Day / Fire Blast / Solarbeam / Pursuit)


    [​IMG] Moltres [​IMG]
    - RestTalk (Rest / Sleep Talk / Sunny Day / Fire Blast)
    - Offensive (Fire Blast / Sunny Day / Roar / Hidden Power Grass)


    [​IMG] Piloswine [​IMG]
    - Standard (Earthquake / Ice Beam / Rest / Toxic or Roar or Sleep Talk)


    [​IMG] Sandslash [​IMG]
    - Swords Dance (Swords Dance / Earthquake / Rock Slide / Hidden Power Bug, Flying)
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2018
    HML am, asbdsp, MajoraLink100 and 4 others like this.
  2. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    I tried to cover all Pokemons from A to D in our viability rankings. However, my GSC knowledge only goes so far. Once again, I invite anyone to complete this list - namely sets I don't know and deserve a mention, and Pokemon that I don't feel confident talking about, such as Smeargle.
     
    HML am likes this.
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Should mention Counter and maybe Morning Sun on Nidoking?
     
    HML am and Sceptross like this.
  4. Alfredo_Rivero

    Alfredo_Rivero Member

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    Maybe should be mentioned the Raikou variant: Thunder/Thunderbolt, HP Ice/Water, Rest, Reflect. Is a not common set but i used it and imo is very good.
     
    HML am and Sceptross like this.
  5. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Technically there's only 4 analyses, Dodrio's analysis is for a meta with the ability to enter battle with 1 HP (at present, only possible on the original Gameboy games, I need to get that implemented at some point) and not suitable for the current GSC.

    Golem has to run HP Rock with Rapid Spin as Rapid Spin is an egg move and Rock Slide is a Gen 1 TM Move.
     
    Alfredo_Rivero and Sceptross like this.
  6. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    Ok guys, implemented all your suggestions, plus a bunch of them that FriendOfMrGolem120 (who else?) suggested to me.

    Enigami, you're right - I'll remove the Dodrio reference.
     
    tjdaas likes this.
  7. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    Expect umbreon analysis from "Someone who was not born yet when the games initially came out" :p (probably after 3 weeks tho)

    No sand attack umb :(
     
  8. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    You could also run Leech Seed and Explosion on the same set.
    Sleep Talk + Whirlwind isn't exactly bad; Skarm isn't super-fast. Really, I'd put Sleep Talk as a fourth option on the Standard set rather than making it a new one; Skarm without Whirlwind isn't very impressive.
    RestTalk (i.e. no SD) can run AncientPower. RestTalk helps make up for the PP, and the boosts allow you to pose a threat to stuff that's otherwise hard walls.

    I'd split it into SD (with or without Rest) and RestTalk.
    Also Slide/Curse/Roar/Pursuit. Really, Tyranitar's set is a matter of some debate.
    Do these really need to be separated? AA is just another option on the standard for fourth.
    EndRev (Endure/Reversal/Megahorn/usually EQ) is another set.
    It has lots of cool RBY options, actually (Reflect and Thunder Wave are awesome); it's just that it can't use them because they're incompatible with Heal Bell.
    Well, Golem can run EQ/RS/Curse or Roar/Explosion.
    With Meganium I'd really be tempted to go the whole hog and go Reflect/Light Screen/Leech Seed/Synthesis. Razor Leaf is basically solely to stop Cloy coming in on you and Spiking/Spinning; I can't think of many other cases where it's super-useful.
     
  9. peach_nair

    peach_nair Member

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    Jynx - Sleep Trapper
    Mean Look
    Lovely Kiss
    Nightmare
    Ice Beam / Psychic
     
  10. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    sleep trap is banned boi
     
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    IIRC we had a vote and DA was dumb enough to put SleepPerishTrap as an option despite directly violating PP tiering policy, then half of Smogon showed up to force it through (even the ones who don't play or post here; in a couple of cases they didn't even bother to show up to vote in the thread itself).

    Dunno if that got revoked, though (it was such an obvious travesty that I wouldn't be surprised).
     
  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    I mean, we now just use smogon's GSC OU rules for GSC OU (and they have a sleeptrap ban I think, and also have freeze clause (I disapprove of it too, of course)), because PP's own GSC tier will be GSC 1U, whatever that ends up being. Right now it stands as GSC Ubers.
     
  13. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    IIRC Smogon uses SleepPerishTrap because M Dragon is a moron. So the ML/LK/Nightmare set would be allowed.
     
  14. FriendOfMrGolem120

    FriendOfMrGolem120 aka. "FOMG" Member

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  15. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    btw I love how you give really nice titles for me and FOMG and left roostur as plain ol' roostur
     
  16. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I see.

    (Note that I'm not saying that SleepTrap ban is necessarily a good idea. I just think the SleepPerishTrap ban is an unholy monster of a complex ban that any sane person would look at and say "fuck no". SleepTrap at least has the excuse of "loophole in Sleep Clause".)
     
    Chrysalis likes this.
  17. Century Express

    Century Express melodies of life Member

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    Toxic Raikou is an amazing variant, and I think it's definitely a viable option on the Roarkou set. Although you lose the coverage against Nidoking and Steelix, it makes up for the huge advantage against opposing Raikou (instead of wasting Thunder PPs and going for the stalemate), and it helps against Snorlax too. You're not killing stuff anytime soon, but you can force them to Rest (which is usually the ideal scenario to capitalize with a good mixed attacker or a BD Lax, for example). This is even more dangerous with Spikes support.

    Exeggutor and Gengar can run Thief (usually on the Giga Drain / HP Fire slot), although there's definitely space to run to use it over Sleep / Stun if you have another Sleep-inducer (although I personally don't like it). It's a super flexible move overall (the Psychic 3HKO benchmark against itemless Zapdos are really important), while Thiefing a Snorlax makes a late-game Zapdos super scary. Even removing the Leftovers os something like Steelix or Tyranitar can give Snorlax a flexible support. Tbh Gengar is soooo flexible, depending of your opponent, you can even run Thunderbolt | Ice Punch | Explosion | Mean Look against teams relying on Raikou or Snorlax (instead of Steelix or Tyranitar) to check Gengar. Thunderbolt | Ice Punch | Explosion | Destiny Bond is a good tweak when you need the trade against AA Vaporeon and Curse Machamp in a complicated situation. Fire Punch is a good slash for teams where you don't want to lose against Curse Heracross (think of Raikou Offenses). Chipping Steelix is always good, of course. All of these moves are slashable usually on the DynamicPunch / Hypnosis slot.

    Crunch + Pursuit is a necessary slash on the Pursuit Tyranitar set. While you lose the coverage against Steelix, Forry and (Toxic) Skarmory, it makes his job a lot easier for the hazard game. You can play the Crunch / Pursuit game around the Poisoned Starmie, it doesn't risk the 15% miss against Eggy, and you get the 2HKO benchmark against Missy and Gengar (which is consistent enough for PTrap shenanigans), and it increases your odds against DynamicPunch Gengar, which is a pain in the ass when you don't get lucky.

    Stoss Miltank is a legit OO. Unlike BSlam, you have tools to discourage Forretress' spin attempts, and the chip damage against Tyranitar / Skarmory is always welcome for Snorlax set-ups.

    I'd mention RestTalk Houndoom too (tbh I think it's easier to build with RestTalk Houndoom than the SD one, since it provides more role compression). Awesome Sleep-absorber against any Sleep-inducer not called Nidoking or Snorlax, while it keep its duties as a support mon against Eggy and Gengar. The variant is Fire Blast | Crunch | Pursuit | Sleep Talk.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2018
  18. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    I like toxic raikou, because of the fact that almost everything that wants to switch into it (bar a few) get nailed by toxic, and if you reduce speed EVs, you can under speed opposing roarkou and put it in a bad situation. I’m not a huge fan of SToss miltank, because BS para is usually really helpful and discourages switchins from pokemon without rest or heal bell. I think 4 attacks champ should also be up there, because of how scary and unpredictable it is. Resttalk Wak should also be up there, because Resttalk gives it longevity and helps it threaten a LOT of stuff, especially stalls that cannot do enough damage back to it.

    Nidoking can run both thief and LK if you are willing to forgo one of the bolt beams, and adds another level of unpredictability and could potentially be good.

    Tyranitar needs surf as an OO, and also the “anti lead” set is complete bogus. Sets with thunderbolt should have pursuit to quickly and effectively remove cloyster. A set like Dpunch/pursuit/thunderbolt/crunch is good on stalls and stuff to completely win the spikes game most of the time.

    Smearagle has like 8000 more sets not explained there. Just check a few lavos replays to see what i mean.
     

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