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ADV Rain in ADV 50

Discussion in 'Analysis and Research' started by Disaster Area, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Rain is a decently powerful archetype in ADV 50. There are a number of abusers and responses available in the tier. This thread is a deeper dive into the archetype, complete with sample teams.


    The sweepers

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Presented here, in order of viability as rain sweepers are Pokemon which benefit significantly from the rain. Huntail is a staple of rain teams. It has the highest Special Attack of a Pokemon with Swift Swim in ADV 50. An offensive set using Rain Dance, Hydro Pump, Ice Beam, and Hidden Power Ice or Grass, with a Modest nature, is normally used. Typically it EVs to outspeed everything up to and including Jolly Crobat under Rain. Its passable physical bulk and decent typing grant it some setup opportunities. Rain teams are usually built around enabling Huntail to sweep. The other specially inclined Swift Swim sweeper is Mantine. Although better suited as a wall, its high Special Defense, superior speed, and different typing offer some upsides compared to Huntail.

    Kabutops and Castform are less purely about sweeping - although don't think that they can't - because they provide important utility to the teams they are on too. Kabutops, unless running a Flail variant (which isn't really best suited to dedicated rain teams), typically runs dual STABs (Rock Slide and Surf), Rapid Spin (it is an excellent answer to Glalie after all), and Swords Dance (providing it sweeping capacity). Rock and Water have perfect neutral coverage in the tier, so Hidden Power coverage is unnecessary here. Rain Dance could be run alternatively over Rapid Spin or possibly Swords Dance, but it can function well without using the move itself. Kabutops can also act as a Rain team's Normal-, Flying-, and Poison-resist, which is important given the numerous prominent Choice Band users in the tier with STABs of those types.

    Castform is a fascinating Pokemon, due to its type changing with the weather. One big upside of this is that it can act as a Rain team's Sun team check, due to being Fire-type in the sun, with STAB Fire-type Weather Ball, yet it can also sweep in the Rain, running a set of Rain Dance, Weather Ball, Thunder, and Ice Beam, providing excellent coverage and high powered attacking options, making up for its lower attacking stats somewhat. Even subtler benefits like being Ghost immune and neutral to Grass-type attacks in clear weather can work in its favour, although it takes care to make Castform work as it loses its having a strong STAB in clear weather.

    Rain Answers

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Generic special walls such as Wailord and Muk can certainly also check rain teams, but the four listed above are amongst the best at handling Rain teams. Clefable has Calm Mind, Thunder Wave, good bulk on both ends, defensive weaknesses that are difficult for rain to exploit, and instant recovery in Softboiled. It can run a diverse array of sets but many of those sets can check rain teams effectively. Lanturn resists Water and Ice, is immune to Electric, and is so specially bulky that with heavy investment, even Hidden Power Grass from Huntail can fail to 3HKO it without some form of chip damage on it. Mantine has Water Absorb, a ground immunity, and a mammoth Special Defense stat, though it has to respond the most passively of any of the Pokemon listed above. Meganium is more vulnerable to critical hits and freezes, but with its passable speed, great special as well as physical bulk, Grass STAB, and Overgrow, it's one of the best and most splashable rain answers.

    It is worth remarking that Kabutops has a quite different set of checks and counters, although Meganium also merits a place on that list. Whiscash is its best answer, but other bulky Water- and Grass-types such as Blastoise and Vileplume can act as solid checks as well.

    Sample teams

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Ampharos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 44 HP / 84 Def / 252 SpA / 128 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Thunderbolt
    - Fire Punch
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Thunder Wave

    Wailord @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Veil
    EVs: 124 Atk / 96 Def / 92 SpA / 160 SpD / 36 Spe
    Sassy Nature
    - Curse
    - Body Slam
    - Self-Destruct
    - Hydro Pump

    Huntail @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Grass]

    Castform @ Leftovers
    Ability: Forecast
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Weather Ball
    - Thunder
    - Ice Beam

    Scyther @ Choice Band
    Ability: Swarm
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Silver Wind
    - Aerial Ace
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Quick Attack

    Kabutops @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Rock Slide
    - Rapid Spin
    - Surf

    This team was built around using Huntail together with Castform and Scyther. Castform provides an answer to sun teams, whilst Scyther resists Grass, letting it switch into Pokemon with Grass/Fire coverage in the rain. In particular, it is a good tool to pressure meganium with. Furthermore, Castform provides a Ghost immunity in clear weather, and Scyther resists Fighting, and provides a ground immunity. Kabutops acts as the Normal- and Flying-resist. It is a good fit for Rain teams, and forces out / can spin on Glalie. Ampharos is a lead which can OHKO Forretress, and is the team's Electric resistance. With Thunder Wave, paralyzing opposing Electric-types can definitely neuter them. Wailord appreciates Rain boosting the power of its Hydro Pumps, letting it 2HKO Forretress in the rain. It acts as a lure, with Self-Destruct, for Pokemon which are problematic for rain teams such as Meganium and Lanturn.

    One possible adjustment to the team is running a Swords Dance Scyther. It makes it less Spikes-bait for Forretress, and has perfect coverage with Aerial Ace + Hidden Power Ground. CB Scyther does have the advantage of hitting harder, which is always useful versus Meganium, and Quick Attack is somewhat necessary on a team without Spikes to cope with EndRev and EndFlail Pokemon.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Glalie @ Quick Claw
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 100 HP / 156 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion

    Wailord @ Leftovers
    Ability: Water Veil
    EVs: 124 Atk / 96 Def / 92 SpA / 160 SpD / 36 Spe
    Sassy Nature
    - Curse
    - Body Slam
    - Self-Destruct
    - Hydro Pump

    Huntail @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Electrode @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Soundproof
    EVs: 12 Atk / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Water]
    - Explosion

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 152 Def / 140 SpA / 216 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
    - Hidden Power [Water]
    - Thunder
    - Taunt
    - Toxic

    Muk @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 52 SpD / 24 Spe
    Brave Nature
    - Curse
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Fire Blast
    - Explosion

    This team is based more around using Spikes + Explosion. Glalie sets Spikes, and Misdreavus guards them. Electrode provides a Flying ad Electric resistance, can set Rain, and can explode on special walls like Meganium and Clefable. However, it needs support to prevent Ground-types such as Whiscash taking its Explosions, which is where Muk comes in: it lures in and can explode on most Ground-types, or at least chip them with Fire Blast. It also acts as a special check and as a means of pressuring Meganium. Glalie can also pressure Meganium. Glalie runs Quick Claw which can help versus EndRev/EndFlail users, and enables it to act as an emergency check to faster threats. Alternatively, Brightpowder could be used to evade attacks (for example, making Aggron's Iron Tail having only a roughly 2 in 3 chance of hitting), or Lum Berry could be used to Spike up more comfortably against Pokemon such as Ampharos. Every Pokemon on the team other than Huntail can pressure or take out Meganium and Lanturn in some way. Wailord is used purely as a means of wearing down common checks to Huntail. Alternatively, EndDaunt could be used in this role, as is the case with the following team:

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Glalie @ Quick Claw
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 100 HP / 156 SpA / 252 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Spikes
    - Hidden Power [Fire]
    - Ice Beam
    - Explosion

    Crawdaunt @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Shell Armor
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Endeavor
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    Huntail @ Leftovers
    Ability: Swift Swim
    EVs: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 232 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 3 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Rain Dance
    - Hydro Pump
    - Ice Beam
    - Hidden Power [Electric]

    Electrode @ Lum Berry
    Ability: Soundproof
    EVs: 12 Atk / 20 Def / 252 SpA / 220 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Rain Dance
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Water]
    - Explosion

    Misdreavus @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 152 Def / 140 SpA / 216 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def / 30 SpA
    - Hidden Power [Water]
    - Thunder
    - Taunt
    - Toxic

    Muk @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sticky Hold
    EVs: 252 HP / 180 Atk / 52 SpD / 24 Spe
    Brave Nature
    - Curse
    - Sludge Bomb
    - Fire Blast
    - Explosion

    Other teambuilding approaches that could be explored utilising Rain includes, for example, using Mantine as a sweeper, using Hypnosis Golduck to lure rain answers, using Golem to explode on Meganium, or using Forretress as a team's Spikes user.
     
    neomon and Lycomedes like this.

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