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Community New Season Format

Discussion in 'RBY 1U Seasons' started by Mister Tim, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    I think we hit time when we must talk about new format for rby seasons(mb other gen seasons). We have problem that newcomers cant get 2nd round and than that can have 1 month break. And i think everyone is tired with this old fashioned format while other computer games leagues are trying to use something more creative. I wanna introduce new for PP GSL format.

    As always players will be paired by groups according to Player Rankings in group of 4 with smth like small double elimination fromat tour which can last 3 weeks.

    [​IMG]

    any player who gets 2 wins goes further, player with 2 loses eliminates.
    Pluses of this system:
    • every player will play 2 matches minimum
    • now it's of the most popular formats for games
    • random effects lower, u cant be sweeped 3-0 and be out of tour
    • we can create smaller tour for all eliminated players with small points(mb like majors and minor tour system)
    Minuses:
    • need to think about points system
    • tours can be 1 week longer
    • works for 16-24-32 mans tours
    • mb bo5 matches not the best format for this.
    this system replaces first 2 rounds of nowadays system, after this round we will start traditional single eliminated play off for 8-12-16 mans.

    Also we can create "Legend" status like it is working in CS GO scene, every player who passed gsl round will 100% sure play next tour of season.

    Feel free to discuss about format and show your thoughts.
     
  2. Stockings

    Stockings Girl, don't waste your time on me Member

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    GSL BAYBEEEEEE
     
  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    I wanna hear some feedback on this.

    Imo:
    - keep the single elim style in later rounds (minimum finals + semifinals)
    - besides that, it's an improvement to early round problems: more games required to knock players out. Probably good for early rounds to give players more games in the season
    - we do need to consider the points but I'm sure once I apply myself to it it should be simple enough to do it (can think of a couple of different approaches, will write about it later, it's an interesting problem with I think multiple solutions)
    - we do need to consider if bo5 would be appropriate in this format in the rby case or if we should lower it to bo3. However if it's 1 week per game, bo5 is probably fine
    - the fact that players who win 2 games in a row in this stage then have a week they can't do anything might either not be good for making sure players don't forget about the tour
    - arguably it doesn't feed inactive players out of the tour fast enough

    I really do like the idea though:
    - It doesn't add too much extra length to the tour
    - It gives players more games and makes it harder to fall out early if you're good enough
    - It doesn't hugely overhaul the current format

    Good suggestion tim :)

    I think some people will have some negative stuff to say about it but I think this merits at the least a serious debate if not a trial season (maybe the season following the one starting January, since the January season is already so close)
     
    Eden's Embrace likes this.
  4. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    I like this a lot, but...

    The big big issue with this is that it really takes a long time. Current single elimination takes a week to cut the players in half every round, this would take three unless you somehow compress multiple matches from the same group into one week which I really wouldn't like. Currently the MT lasts 4 weeks, so going out Round 1 means you wait one month for the next. With the introduction of this format, if you lose the first two matches, you have to wait something like 6-7 weeks (assuming first two rounds use this group format). It does add too much length to the tournament in its current shape - 2 extra weeks per round, doing this twice, is 4 extra weeks.

    An interesting idea would be compressing the groups into a one-day mini tournament kinda thing, making the matches best of 3. The four people involved schedule for a 2-3 hour window at any point during the week, they all show up, they play out their matches all in one day; people who go 2-0 or 0-2 can leave early, the tiebreak people stick around a bit longer. This keeps this the deadline at one week per round, but has the added difficulty of needing four people to schedule and show up. Then again, enforcing higher activity is really not a bad thing given the trend of subbing and extensions due to lazy scheduling that has been going on. I do love the idea though even if it's a bit impractical.

    If anyone has other ideas to fix the super mega ultra long times I'd love to hear them. I really really like replacing single elim for the earlier rounds.

    (Points are a non-issue, we can implement a new system pretty easily)
     
    Disaster Area likes this.
  5. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    it only replaces first 2 rounds of tour, the rest of tour will be same as now

    i think 1st place guys will not forget to play in a week))

    it's not taking a long time, it adds only 1 week to current type of format, it replaces only 2 first rounds, gsl format will be played once per tour. This means that tour starts with groups of 4 with gsl format, winners will play our traditional single elimination.

    i dont think that this will work for all players


    about points: im a bit confused how 2 formats will work together in future player rankings
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  6. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    No. GSL round still cuts the player count in half every round, from 4 to 2, like single elimination. So it either only replaces round 1 and adds TWO weeks (it's 3 matches to be played since there's a tiebreaker), or it replaces rounds 1 and 2 and adds FOUR.
     
  7. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    ok, true
    edit: but players playing 2 weeks minimum
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  8. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    we can create smaller tour for eliminated =\ with less points, etc
     
  9. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    I like the idea of a 'Minor League' of sorts actually. I know it's not exactly what you have in mind, but hear me out:

    I'm picturing some super ambitious format where the top 16 signups in points play GSL -> GSL -> semis and finals in the actual Master Tournament, and the other signups that don't make the cut play in a qualifying league of sorts. We'd have to balance points so that people who lose early in MTs drop to lower league, and people who win lower league autoqualify for the next big league MT.

    Is this plausible in practice? ...Probably not, but maybe there's a chance of making this happen and I'd like it. We would obviously need a massive rework on the point system to make sure the top 16 playing in the MT is *actually* the best competition out there, as well as finer design for the lower league, but it does make two rounds of GSL viable and I think it would increase average level of play.

    I do agree that single elimination is too janky and we could use more refined formats. For the average player it's really no fun getting your run cut by top players in early rounds.
     
  10. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    i'm not sure that this foramt is usefull for MT and seasons, but interesting for qulification for, for example, indigo cup or WC
     
  11. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    Another alternative is just... reworking things entirely, take the long deadlines, and readjust our schedules to having 6 MTs per year. The single MTs feel more important because they happen less often and you can run GSL with normal full week deadlines. Add in smaller tournaments to run 'in the background' after round 1 of every MT for the people that get eliminated. Closer to your old proposal, would be difficult to get used to much less frequent MTs, but probably workable.

    Either way there's no easy solution to removing dumb old single elim it seems x_x
     
  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    Yeah I think the verdict pretty quickly reached is:
    it takes too long to replace single elim in seasons

    However, it could be good to have a cup or some other sort of tournament with this format.
     
  13. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    Mb we also should remake format of seasons as well, really like major and minor leagues
     
    The Idiot Ninja likes this.
  14. Contact

    Contact Under The Sea Member

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    Honestly if you're going to go with double elimination in the first 2 rounds, why not make the whole tournament format double elimination? I get that one of the main reasons most Pokemon tournaments don't do that is due to the tournament lasting forever, but what about maybe making the whole thing double elimination and cutting the deadline for each round down a little bit(say one week max or something like that)? Either way I like the system but it feels weird to make it only double elimination for the first two rounds.
     
  15. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    See I don't think "it takes too long" is a good reason to not do it. We could easily put in the work - I threw out two or three valid ideas out there already. And Tim agrees.

    I think the sensible thing to do from here is making a poll to ask people how they feel about single elimination. If people still like it, let's just not do a whole bunch of work for nothing and keep things as they are; but if the 'bleh' feeling I get from SElim is widespread it's absolutely worth putting in the effort to change things.
     
  16. Contact

    Contact Under The Sea Member

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    Wouldn't it be easier to just do a system where we have different "pools" of players? Say for example we have 16 people sign up for a tournament. 16 entrants = 4 pools of 4 players. The fighting game community does this in pretty much all major tournaments, you start off with 16 people? Then its divided up into 4 people in each pool..those brackets are double elimination, and after each person makes it out of their pool they go on to play in a double elimination bracket after that. Now I know that's probably way too long as MT's are usually 1 month so what I'm proposing is that we take signups on a first come first serve for MT's, put somewhat of a cap on how many entrants there can be(say 16 or 24 for the smaller tiers and 32 or 64 for the tiers we have more of a population with), and then maybe just do double elimination for pools and then make a single elimination bracket for those who made it out of pools? (this would be a regular bracket in pools by the way, not a round robin sort of thing).
     
  17. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    That's very similar or equivalent to GSL. It doesn't solve the problem of "it takes a really long time to play all the matches out".
     
  18. Contact

    Contact Under The Sea Member

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    Yeah I realized that right after I posted it. I don't see what the problem with doing less MT's per season would be(say like 1-2 mt's depending on how long this would actually take). Its not a hard fix if the site wants to go that route though, just keep the activity/deadlines strict, reduce the total number of MT's from 3 to 2, and double elimination all the way around would probably be possible.

    Edit: I also really like the idea either The Idiot Ninja or Mister Tim posted about doing smaller individual tours for the people waiting for the main master tournaments to finish.
     
  19. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    IMO double elimination for whole season is too big, mb in case of long tour we should remake seasons, for example they can last half of year and will include 3 full doubles tour, but this can be too long and too much battles. Gsl format which goes into 2 leagues is good alternative to this, 2 separate tours will be played with closer skill bracket, but anyway this tour will last longer, but I don’t think that this is a problem if we will have 3 seasons per year instead of 4
     
  20. Contact

    Contact Under The Sea Member

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    What were you aiming to fix from proposing we shift from single elimination to GSL?

    Edit: I ask this because i have a follow-up question that I want to ask you.
     
  21. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    With it we can creat healthy system for good old players and newcomers. In gsl round they will play together and after it we will have 2 different single elimination tours which players are closer to each other by skill level. We will avoid situation where peas will wreck random newcomer and he will never play again, he will have chance to play some good players and chance to grow up with closer to him boys after gsl round
     
    The Idiot Ninja likes this.
  22. Contact

    Contact Under The Sea Member

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    If your objective is to make it more newcomer friendly then GSL works fine, but if you want to reduce the amount of people being like "oh I got haxed and lost" I mean you can kinda get away with some excuse like that in a single elimination tournament, but in double elimination there is no room to make excuses like that since you have 2 lives.
     
  23. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    U still have 2 lives in gsl => u will not be haxed and out from start, double elimination is not so friendly and takes more time.

    It a compromise between hax, friendly newcomers strat and time for tour.
     
    The Idiot Ninja likes this.
  24. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    Honestly, just adding a first round of GSL and then running two single elimination tournaments with top half of players / bottom half of players sounds good. It's not a big revolution to the format (only replaces the first round as far as the winners are concerned), it fits with deadlines (2 more weeks per MT is bad but not that bad), it should on average give higher levels of competition because of the two lives at R1, I think it's pretty easy to put in place too.
     
  25. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    Peasounay I know would very much dislike if the tour took longer and, as he would describe it, would be less dynamic. I'm sure he can do a stronger defense of single elim than I can.
     
  26. Stockings

    Stockings Girl, don't waste your time on me Member

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    right none of this whole time nonsense is relevant what REALLY matters is when are we implementing the full gsl system and getting code S and code A tours x
     
  27. The Idiot Ninja

    The Idiot Ninja "The 15th RBY italian talent" Member

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    when you come up with a way for them to take less than 6 weeks

    deadlines is literally the only problem
     
  28. Stockings

    Stockings Girl, don't waste your time on me Member

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    code A is a pile of simultaneous 1v1s and code S is 6 stages if i'm doing basic addition correctly
     
  29. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Member

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    32 man tour:
    3 weeks gsl round
    4 more weeks for next single elimination tours

    Vs

    5 weeks single elimination

    Ofc later rounds can be played faster, but we have 2 weeks difference. We can reduce it only by changing deadlines. Anyway I don’t think that this is really big problem to play 3 seasons in 1 year or 4.
     
  30. Stockings

    Stockings Girl, don't waste your time on me Member

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    IMO GSL groups can be reasonably done in 2 weeks but there are pokemon players so ig you have a point
     
  31. Troller

    Troller Member

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    I personally enjoy single elimination tours much more, i'm sure i would get tired soon with GSL and noneless quitting the activity or strongly decreasing at best (speaking for myself but probably i'm not the only on the planet). I hope it stays as it always has been
     

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