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ADV OU (OverUsed) Lyco Gacu Offense

Discussion in 'Public Teams' started by Lycomedes, May 20, 2018.

  1. Lycomedes

    Lycomedes Member

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    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]


    This is a team by me and Gacu, a modernized Phys Offense that aims to end the
    game within 30 turns. The pokes synergize well and provide a decent defensive
    core along with the strong offensive presence.

    [​IMG]
    Stegosaurus (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpA / 40 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Ice Beam
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    Tyranitar leads off to get the sand going and threaten common leads like Zapdos
    and MixMence. Grass does 80% to Swampert, creating an opening for the phys
    attackers to rip into the opposing team. Crunch and Pursuit take down Gengar,
    one of the biggest threats to any Advance team. Pursuit also gets nice chip damage
    on Moltres, Aero, Claydol, etc.

    [​IMG]
    Aquatic (Swampert) @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Endeavor
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    This guy can often get more than one kill against teams that lack a faster
    Pokémon like Jolteon or Starmie. Surf hits hard with the Torrent boost, and Ice
    Beam provides good coverage.

    [​IMG]
    Drake (Salamence) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    DDmence, one of my favorite Pokémon. After one Dragon Dance he outspeeds the
    entire tier and gets 606 Attack, making him an excellent cleaner. CBmence also
    works here.

    [​IMG]
    Metallic Plasma (Metagross) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 36 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Protect
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion

    Metagross does lot of work on this team, hitting hard and resisting Salamence's
    weaknesses. Protect shuts down Choice Banders. With Gengar out of the picture
    Explosion is unavoidable.

    [​IMG]
    Electromagnetism (Magneton) @ Magnet
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Thunder Wave
    - Protect

    The essential Skarmory remover. With Skarm out of the picture the phys
    attackers can do serious work. Grass is better here because hitting opposing
    Swampert is crucial, and Forretress is setup bait for Salamence and Swampert.
    Protect helps against Choice Banders.

    [​IMG]
    Gourmet (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Immunity
    EVs: 76 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def / 176 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Ball
    - Self-Destruct

    Snorlax is a crucial answer to special pokes like Suicune, Starmie and Milotic,
    and with Skarmory removed he's a formidable threat that's hard to take out.
    Self-Destruct will take down any Pokémon in the tier that doesn't resist it.
    He's hurt by Sand, but so are the pokes he deals with, especially Suicune.

    Stegosaurus (Tyranitar) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Sand Stream
    EVs: 248 HP / 220 SpA / 40 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Ice Beam
    - Crunch
    - Pursuit

    Aquatic (Swampert) @ Salac Berry
    Ability: Torrent
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Substitute
    - Endeavor
    - Surf
    - Ice Beam

    Metallic Plasma (Metagross) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Clear Body
    EVs: 204 HP / 252 Atk / 16 Def / 36 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Protect
    - Meteor Mash
    - Earthquake
    - Explosion

    Drake (Salamence) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Dragon Dance
    - Hidden Power [Flying]
    - Earthquake
    - Rock Slide

    Electromagnetism (Magneton) @ Magnet
    Ability: Magnet Pull
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
    - Thunderbolt
    - Hidden Power [Grass]
    - Thunder Wave
    - Protect

    Gourmet (Snorlax) @ Leftovers
    Ability: Immunity
    EVs: 76 HP / 176 Atk / 80 Def / 176 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Body Slam
    - Earthquake
    - Shadow Ball
    - Self-Destruct

    The team has been successful in tour games and on ladder. It was concieved as
    an answer to Skarm Bliss teams, but it seems to be able to handle any kind of
    team. (I'm not considering BP chains; BPers have no souls.) It remains an
    offensive team that relies on dealing damage, and ending the game within 30
    turns.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
    Linkin Karp, Cowboy Dan and Dizno like this.
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    Forretress is kind of a problem. Mag can't trap it if it carries EQ (almost all do), and Lax/Tar/Meta can't do much to it. U want a bulkier spread on Mence, living an ice beam or punch from stuff is basically always worth it, try:
    EVs: 116 HP / 252 Atk / 140 Spe
    Adamant Nature

    Jirachi is kind of annoying, I mean AstaRachi kinda just sits on u and spreads status.

    The meta set is weird, why are u running protect on it.

    Moltres spreads burns really easily vs u once its scouted out the sets or if its in a 1 on 1 vs mag or meta.
     
  3. Lycomedes

    Lycomedes Member

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    Forretress is not a problem, it's setup bait.

    AstaRachi doesn't sit on a team with 3x Adamant EQ and a Magneton.

    I explained in the post why Meta has Protect.

    Moltres is a threat, so let's make Mence slower so it doesn't outspeed it.

    116 HP and 0 SpD on Mence isn't enough to live Ice attacks, certainly not in sand.
     
  4. Dizno

    Dizno Member

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    Love this team. This is more of an SMT than an RMT seeing as the team has already proven to be successful. I find this one of the easiest teams to get ladder accounts over the 1.5k line.
     
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  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    Only 2x EQ. AstaRachi is great vs the TTar, Lax, Mag, Pert can't switch into it, Meta is fucked up by it if it gets Fire Punch burned, and mence is fucked up by status too. Not great.

    U can run bulkier, and I usually do. I just grabbed the first thing from my builder...

    4 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 333-392 (92.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
    8 SpA Gengar Ice Punch vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 333-392 (92.7 - 109.1%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
    40 SpA Swampert Ice Beam vs. 116 HP / 0 SpD Salamence: 306-360 (85.2 - 100.2%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

    Here's a bulkier spread I use:
    EVs: 252 Atk / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
    Adamant Nature

    40 SpA Swampert Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Salamence: 258-304 (78.1 - 92.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    4 SpA Milotic Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Salamence: 285-336 (86.3 - 101.8%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
    8 SpA Gengar Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 140 SpD Salamence: 282-332 (85.4 - 100.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

    so primarily for pert.

    I guess yea on the whole then since this team is so molt weak that u have to risk mence getting burnt to handle it, and u have multiple lures for pert, running max spe fits I guess. But bulkier DDmence is / should be considered the standard for a reason.
     
  6. Lycomedes

    Lycomedes Member

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    No it's 3x EQ lol.
     
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    Oh whoops I thought it was curse not EQ on lax im not used to seeing bslam shadow ball self-destruct without curse xD

    alright that helps a bit w rachi
     
  8. Dizno

    Dizno Member

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    8 special attack on gengar???

    Ive never had any moltres issues with this team. It has pursuit tar, rock slide and double boom. Try using this team on ladder. Right now Gacu and I are spamming it. I have like a 85% win rate alone with this team
     
  9. Lycomedes

    Lycomedes Member

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    DA you're not including Sandstorm damage in these calculations. And with 116 Spe you don't even outspeed Adamant Heracross. You are also outsped by various Moltres, Zapdos, Smeargle, Suicune, Medicham, opposing Mence, Gyarados, Jirachi, Celebi, Flygon, etc.
     
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  10. Stockings

    Stockings Mum stole me darts Member

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    physspam = good
    piex = nerd
     
  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Leader

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    I just did that bc it's the least u commonly see and I couldn't remember any other spreads

    I don't even have time to use my own teams on ladder x
    I know, I just wanted to show the ranges. It's effort to include the sandstorm damage and I didn't care enough about my post to go through that effort.

    there's always tradeoffs of course. I was just highlighting what mence can do.

    Anyway I see why u went w a faster mence here after u explained about moltres but tbh that's the sorta build decision u should have talked about in your RMT, why fast ddmence vs bulky. U should also really talk about like how the Pokemon work to take down eachother's checks and counters... I can see sorta how it works but if u explain it in greater detail it makes the team make more sense
     
  12. hclat

    hclat Member

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    This is a cool team, which has found success, as Lyco stated, on the ladder and in his impressive runs in Mossdeep and PPL. At a glance, it looks like a really vanilla phys spam, but it has a number of wrinkles that make it effective in today's meta. Namely, the team exploits the hell of refresh pert. It's as sound defensively as any team of this style needs to be, checking the boxes of stopping adv's big name offensive threats.

    My biggest critique of the team is that it relies on surprise moves to get past physSpam/s biggest nemesis, swampert, instead of using mons like gyara, hera, ddtox/ddgrass tar, mixmence to get through it. Due of this, a player can find themselves at a significant disadvantage if they reveal moves like hp grass on tar/mag or sub on pert or dd on mence at inopportune times, such as switches and protects. There little on this team that both forces swampert in and hurts it. However, the team is absolutely deadly when one of these moves finds its mark. See PPL match between lyco and ninjax:
    [Gen 3] OU replay: Lord Ninjax vs. Lycomedes - Pokémon Showdown

    My two cents on some things that were brought up in comments:
    This team is definitely weak to forretress. It being "setup bait" isn't a valid argument, since forre isn't too threatened by its two setup sweepers (pert and ddmence.) However, forre usage is low enough nowadays (especially on the ladder) that you may not see that as being a significant problem for the team overall.

    The meta set: It's definitely unusual - Protect typically accompanies toxic on defensive metagross. However, I think that it could find plenty of value on a team like this, especially when meta is the only lefties-gaining rock resist. The team certainly aims to exploit refreshpert, and this meta set does this as well.

    The mence spread: there isn't a lot of stuff that lingers between 286 and 299 speed, but I guess there isn't anything too wrong with ensuring a speed advantage on non-timid/jolly base 100s. If it were me, I would invest in bulk more and try to invest to live something like an uninvested pert ice beam.

    Astarachi: The team is good against astarachi and rachi in general. Max timid ice punch+grass cm rachi obviously ruins your day if lax is down, but there are always weird sets match up well against any team.
     
    Gacu, Disaster Area and Lycomedes like this.
  13. Lycomedes

    Lycomedes Member

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    Indeed, with the recent prevalence of Refresh Pert we can't rely on Toxic. Instead we rely on double Grass, Endeavor Pert, chip damage, and double Boom. We usually get past Swampert even without a Grass hit.

    In our experience a low Speed on Salamence is a bigger issue than a low SpD. You can certainly try a bulky spread. MixMence is also a possibility, but we ruled it out because it's not effective against CMers and is generally weak to Specially offensive Pokémon. Nothing cleans up a weakened team as nicely as DDmence.

    Protect Meta has been valuable for its ability to shut down Choice Banders: Aero, Mence, Flygon, Hera, and the occasional Slaking. It also gains more Leftovers recovery, which can allow Meta to survive a Mag Thunderbolt it otherwise wouldn't. You could try Grass Meta for an additional Pert lure, but we haven't found that necessary. Agility is an option, and I would recommend it if you remove DD on Mence.

    We haven't found Forretress to be an issue for the team, though it theoretically could be. Fire on Mag, Tar, Meta, or Lax is an option.

    [Gen 3] OU replay: Lycomedes vs. Enrico Matassa - Pokémon Showdown
    This game demonstrates how Protect Meta deals with Aero.
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018

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