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GSC OU (OverUsed) Let's discuss on Draw

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Troller, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. Troller

    Troller From Marcoasd's DNA Member

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    Are we really sure about the draw during 1v1 last boom? I mean gsc is a tier full of powerfull booms, and you can't even pretend someone to "avoid it" from another good player, power of booms in gsc is ridicolous (Snorlax can force a tie into Curse Machamp, how), we are copying the game because "this is a simulator" but isn't the freeze/sleep clause the same? It wasn't in the game but it is really useful and weakes a bit the shit of pokémon, i think we should change this, but that's just an opinion, let's see what do you think

    I think this mechanics kills a lot of competitiveness, which is what we are looking in this dirty game right?
     
  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Catto of Furr and Power Member

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    Just to be clear, currently what we do on Pokemon Perfect is that we copy what is said on cartridge, which in the case of last-mon boom is a tie. If people agree with changing it to something else, we'll change it. I don't really have much of an opinion, basically I think: follow cartridge unless there's reason to otherwise, and by the sounds of it, in GSC there's reason to otherwise. Since it's a refereeing decision rather than a mechanical decision, there isn't any issue with diverting from what cartrige does.
     
    Chrysalis likes this.
  3. Conflict

    Conflict Member

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    keep draws as draws.

    u can outplay last mon booms by just having 1 more mon. ;)
     
    dom and Ortheore like this.
  4. Ariel Rebel

    Ariel Rebel #1 rsutton23 Fan Member

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    I have a bias towards the explosion player winning if it results in a double KO where the players are on their last poke.

    From what it sounds here, what happens on the ladder stays on the ladder.

    I've been laddering since December and where I play explosion pokes, I look at possible end game states in which I win. By removing explosion as a win condition, I have to play slightly differently here as opposed to the ladder. It will take getting used to.

    A certainly hope you don't move towards last poke explosion player losing. That will be a rough adjustment.

    *Same deal for Perish Song.
     
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Catto of Furr and Power Member

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    Wait the explosion player wins on ladder? lmao I have never heard of that anywhere else. I've always either heard of it as the explosion player loses (Self-KO Clause), or it's a tie.
     
  6. Ortheore

    Ortheore Host Emeritus

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    ^^^^^^^^
    This is very much my perspective. It's not hard to envision potentially being in a situation where you're best to play for a draw. I feel that arbitrarily deciding a winner in that situation is unfair, as it either denies the losing player a perfectly competitive option or punishes the winning player even though they have the better position otherwise

    Fwiw I don't ever remember deciding that we'd officially stick to what is displayed on cart, although it is a nice precedent to have. I agree with DA when he says that it's not necessarily something we have to follow the carts on (like in competitive smash if they get KO'd at the same time they don't do sudden death to determine a winner, despite what the game says).
     
    Chrysalis likes this.
  7. Ariel Rebel

    Ariel Rebel #1 rsutton23 Fan Member

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    Watch the replays where it has already happened in PPL. Explosion player given the win in those cases.
     
  8. sulcata

    sulcata sulcata#9465 Member

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    The thing with this situation is that it's completely subjective as to who "should" win if the game doesn't state it explicitly. If it goes down to last mon, that's a pretty close game to begin with. In the case of Smash there is a built in tie breaker, but that's up to random elements, which that community has a stronger stance against afaik. Without a built in tie breaker we can either leave it a tie or find some method of breaking the tie (i.e. play one more game, nullify the result, etc). The problem with simply deciding with a Self-KO clause is that it can notably change how the late game is played with regards to how boom mons are conserved.

    The only things that really remove competitiveness are things that remove agency. Forcing a tie is competitive when lacking the means to win. Boom is powerful, but one clause isn't going to fix anything; it's as "broken" as lax with or without the clause. Is there even any precedent to balancing the meta via changing the results of a match?

    Breaking ties is reasonable, I just don't think self-ko clause is a great way of doing it. Whatever way is picked wouldn't be breaking mechanics though, as others have pointed out.
     
    Disaster Area and deluks917 like this.
  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    I think Explosion draws should stay draws. It's like in chess if you trade all the pieces and get bare kings endgame.

    Giving the Exploder the win is even worse than giving the Exploder a loss, though neither is particularly reasonable.
     
    Ortheore and Disaster Area like this.
  10. Lojh

    Lojh Above Average GSCer Member

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    I’m with Ariel on the statement that ladder booms and in game mechanics should stay as is.
     

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