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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Gyarados

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Ortheore, May 15, 2018.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    I couldn't find Gyara's analysis anywhere so I figured I'd make one since I've been using it lately (that's what happens when you use RNG to pick team concepts lol)

    Gyarados [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    Type: Water/Flying
    Stats: 95 | 125 | 79 | 100 | 81


    Introduction

    Even after several generations of pokemon, Gyarados still looks like one of the most fearsome Pokemon in existence. Sadly in RBY it is borderline unusable, despite its seemingly excellent tools. Its gaudy offensive stats are critically undermined by its lack of a physical STAB, causing it to lag behind the tier's other physical attackers, while Water STAB also raises issues, as it can't fit coverage to hit all of the threats it would like, while its speed is only middling. That speed stat also compounds the defensive issues created by its typing, as Electric types rip it to shreds, while other top threats such as Starmie, Lapras and Chansey all threaten immense damage (if not KOing) with their Thunderbolt. Lastly, Gyarados struggles to stand out from other Water types, particularly Lapras, which offer similar strengths with fewer flaws. In this regard its only notable traits are its better Attack and immunity to Earthquake, which struggle to tip the balance. All in all, Gyarados is really something of a gimmick, it can potentially catch an opponent off guard, but most of the time it is merely a handicap for your team.

    Sets

    All-Out Attacker

    Gyarados
    -Hydro Pump/Blizzard
    -Thunderbolt
    -Body Slam
    -Hyper Beam

    Set Details

    This set is pretty simple- attack with whatever will deal the most damage. Hydro Pump is the STAB move of choice for its raw power, making it great against Snorlax and Tauros, but it is quite unreliable. Blizzard is also an option, offering superior coverage by hitting Grass types like Exeggutor super effectively, but this comes at the cost of Gyarados' power against Snorlax and Tauros. Thunderbolt enables Gyarados to deal with the Water types that otherwise love to switch into it. Body Slam is used primarily to beat up Chansey, but it is also Gyarados' only means of paralysing its opponents. Hyper Beam rounds out the set as a means of exploiting Gyarados' excellent Attack stat by finishing off weakened foes.

    Other Options

    Blizzard is Gyarados' next best option by an enormous margin, as it offers superior coverage to its Water STAB, most notably hitting Exeggutor super effectively, making it a decent option overall. The reason it's not listed is that it's difficult to justify forgoing any of the moves listed above, as Exeggutor is relatively easy to wear down, while dropping a move means forgoing coverage against the three top Normal types or in the case of Thunderbolt, enabling every Water type in the tier to act as a hard check. Surf is notable for being a STAB move that practically never misses, unlike the notoriously unreliable Hydro Pump. However its damage output is barely better than Blizzard's, which defeats the purpose of running a STAB move, given Blizzard's superior coverage. Thunder enables Gyarados to land the 2HKO on Starmie, but its atrocious accuracy makes it a poor option. The only other intriguing option is that it has Reflect and Rest, and enough speed and bulk to be able to use that combo effectively. The trouble with such a set is that its Electric weakness means it is easy to force out, and without Reflect its physical bulk isn't sufficient to allow it to wake comfortably, and that's assuming your opponent doesn't abuse its Electric weakness with something like Zapdos.

    Checks and Counters

    In general, if it has Thunderbolt, it's an effective Gyarados check, although no check is completely free to switch in. Jolteon and Zapdos both outspeed Gyarados and KO comfortably, but fear Body Slam paralysis and generally prefer not to tank Gyarados' STAB attacks (or Blizzard in Zapdos' case). Starmie and Lapras are excellent checks to Gyarados thanks to their resistance to its primary attacking option, although both are susceptible to Thunderbolt themselves, while Starmie doesn't like switching into Body Slam and Lapras is slower than Gyarados. Chansey is an excellent Gyarados check, being unconcerned by its Special attacks and immune to paralysis from Body Slam, however if Chansey is weakened it must be wary, as Gyarados Body Slam + Hyper Beam can deal anywhere from 77-91%. Gengar can check Gyarados with Thunderbolt, although like the Electrics it prefers not to switch into STAB attacks. Lastly, Exeggutor is an excellent check if Gyarados forgoes Blizzard, as it's bulky enough to shrug off Gyarados' physical attacks and resists everything else.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  2. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    No mention of switching into Rhydon/Golem? I imagine half the reason to use Gyarados is for the EQ immunity, since without it Gyara is mostly a worse Lapras.
     
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  3. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    I'm not sure the move set is right. All 5 of Hydro Pump / Body Slam / Hyper Beam / Thunderbolt / Blizzard are pretty good, but you do have tradeoffs when any of them are dropped:
    - Hydro Pump: your best move to smack Tauros and Snorlax and Rocks and really is a move you wish you could spam
    - Thunderbolt: the best move against Waters (Starmie, Lapras, Slowbro, Cloyster). However, to some extent Body Slam and Hyper Beam can do that as well as having other benefits - what are the calcs for Tbolt that make it undroppable?
    - Blizzard: the best move against Exeggutor and the rare Victreebel, and I guess Zapdos too. However, they are chipped at by Body Slam/Hyper Beam pretty well too. What's the calcs like for it
    - Hyper Beam: Obviously necessary to get through Chansey
    - Body Slam: Best against Alakazam and Chansey and is a pretty spammable attack although I imagine it doesn't do so much without stab. Also chips at a lot of other checks (e.g. Starmie, Exeggutor) in a significant way

    I kind of feel like
    Hydro Pump
    Hyper Beam
    Body Slam / Thunderbolt
    Blizzard / Thunderbolt

    might be how I would slash it but it's really hard to say

    Honestly I could also see Sub working alongside Hydro + the 2 normal attacks

    maybe talk about its somewhat decent synergy w/ Jolteon & Gengar
     
  4. Lusch

    Lusch A critical hit! Member

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    No. Ortheore got it completely right. Only thing I could see is going even Thunder>Thunderbolt for the 2HKO/Crit 1HKO on Starmie. Of course, unreliable, but you are using Gyarados already, so... why not? [Not saying it should be standard, but surely it is an Option worth mentioning in OO]
    Blizzard is not too important on Gyara. You shouldn't drop HPump or Thunder(bolt) or Body Slam for it. If you don't have an electric move, Starmie, Cloyster, Lapras shit even more on you and if you drop Body Slam you lose the chance to para Starmie on the switch and miss out on the Body Slam + Hyper Beam combo vs Chansey, not worth it for hitting Eggy in this particular case. Hydro Punp puts a dent in the Normals as well as OHKOing the Rocks and Sandslash (well, you know 80% of the time...) which is definitely welcome. (It can 2HKO Tauros)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Yea I mean I was saying that stuff without calcing. I guess Tbolt lets u prevent para'd starmie switching in given some amount of chip on it so that's cool. I think vs Starmie/Cloyster/Lapras it's not like ur going to be staying in to 1v1 then (except maybe Cloyster), so I feel like u only really want Tbolt as either a finishing move (for vs Lapras/Starmie) or to guard against them switching in. I can see the merit in it but I'm not even certain its so much better than Blizzard u can't drop it. At the very least tho I think Orth it wrong for slashing Hydro with Blizz, Hydro is so huge
     
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  6. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    I've found it to be surprisingly less than useful, since EQ only really becomes predictable once your Egg dies. I did add a mention of its EQ immunity to the intro

    Regarding Blizzard, I could always put it in OO and give it a relatively favourable mention. For reasons Lusch mentions, I don't think Tbolt and BSlam can be dropped. Hyper Beam I suppose could be, but I really don't think it's a good idea, since there are a lot of threats for which you'd want a stronger finishing move, not to mention that Chansey immediately goes from being a semi-dubious check to a hard counter. STAB seemed the most dispensible to me, since it's kinda specific to Tauros and Lax, but then I guess it's also useful if you're unsure what's coming in. In any case, I think Blizzard is significantly inferior to Gyara's primary options, and although I think STAB is the most replaceable component of Gyara's set, I'd rather put Blizz in OO than slash it with anything else because I think it's significantly worse than any move it would replace
     
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Well what if u don't run it w Egg? Say something like Gar / Sing Chans / Lax / Tauros / Jol

    Blizz in OO sounds good to me
     
  8. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    Maybe the problem with Golem/Rhydon is the garanteed 2hko from Rock Slide, which sometimes is used when you predict a switch to Exeggutor. And switching Gyarados into a paralyzing Body Slam (which is another option used by GolDon users that predict the classical switch to Egg) is not great either.
     
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  9. marcoasd

    marcoasd Host Emeritus

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    Gyarados can't make it through rough power and it doesn't have the tools to shine with a premeditated setup.
    One of the most outclassed pokemon, sadly.

    At least, it can work thanks to RNG power aka CHs so it's a mixed sweeper that can hit Recover trio and Snorlax/Tauros: I think Blizzard is the most dispensable move, it's specific (for Exeggutor, and Body Slam is the brainless move in case Zapdos is switching in) after all.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2018

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