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GSC OU (OverUsed) Gengar [Discussion Ready]

Discussion in 'Individual Analyses' started by Sceptross, Jul 19, 2018.

  1. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    Gengar [​IMG]
    Type: Ghost / Poison
    Stats: 60 / 65 / 60 / 130 / 75 / 110

    Introduction

    Gengar is arguably one of the best Pokemon in the history of the franchise, being a common sight throughout the generations in the top of viability rankings and GSC is certainly no exception. Gengar's Ghost typing warrants it a unique set of immunities in Normal and Fighting, meaning it can switch into predicted Explosions with impunity and block Rapid Spin. Its Poison typing, although giving it extra weaknesses to be exploited, means that it is immune to Toxic. Gengar also has access to several tricks that further boost its usefulness, such as Explosion and Destiny Bond, which, due to its speed, allow it to almost always take out a counter with it, or Hypnosis and DynamicPunch, which give it a way to get past Pokemon such as Pursuit Tyranitar which would otherwise give it a very rough time. On top of that, its access to Thunder(bolt) and Ice Punch coupled with its very high Special Attack also allow it to be a big threat offensively, putting pressure on Flying-types such as Zapdos and Skarmory or Water-types such as Suicune, Vaporeon or Cloyster. Its main downside is the fact that it is so frail, especially on the physical side. This, coupled to a weakness to Earthquake and Psychic means that it is going to have a rough time with Ground-types such as Steelix, Rhydon, Marowak or Golem or Psychic-types such as Starmie. Being weak to STAB of the last two means that it will struggle to come in to spinblock repeatedly throughout the game, one of its main assets. Its Ghost type, while a blessing, also comes with a weakness to Pursuit, which, when we have said frailty in consideration, means that Gengar struggles against Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Houndoom and to a lesser extent Umbreon. But don't let this deter you from using it, because Gengar is undoubtedly one of the best Pokemons of GSC.

    Sets

    Standard

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    - Explosion / Destiny Bond
    - Thunder / Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Hypnosis / DynamicPunch

    Set Details

    This is Gengar's standard set and the one you should expect when you see it. Explosion is the more common move in the first slot and will do massive amounts of damage when Gengar's job is done. However, Destiny Bond is also a very solid option that guarantees the KO, since Gengar is very fast, being outsped by only Starmie and Raikou in OU. However, it requires that the opponent uses a direct attacking move and KOs Gengar, which means it's much less versatile. The choice between Thunder and Thunderbolt is the classic power vs accuracy argument (as well as the extra chance of paralysis for Thunder) and although Thunder is more commonly used, both options are considered viable. Hypnosis and DynamicPunch give it options to get past Pursuit users. Hypnosis is more versatile in the sense that it can be used against any Pokemon. However, once something has been put to sleep, it loses its usefulness, whereas DynamicPunch will always threaten Pokemon such as Tyranitar, Umbreon, Houndoom or Snorlax.

    PerishTrap

    Gengar @ Leftovers
    - Mean Look
    - Perish Song
    - Protect
    - Thunder / Thunderbolt / Confuse Ray

    Set Details

    This set works much like Misdreavus' PerishTrap set, but it's generally weaker due to Gengar being weak to Psychic and Ground. Mean Look to trap something, Perish Song and Protect while your opponent tries to attack you, maybe throwing a Confuse Ray or an electric move to help you with turns Protect doesn't work. Its greatest asset comes from unpredictability, being perfectly possible to take out a Zapdos, a Raikou without Roar or a Snorlax without Earthquake with it. However, keep in mind that once you try it once (succeeding or not), it will no longer work and you are stuck with an almost useless Pokemon. It suffers from severe consistency issues (you are most likely to start the game 5 to 6 than not, to be honest), but can be useful in very specific scenarios.

    Other options

    Thief is sometimes seen in place of Hypnosis or DynamicPunch, being able to instantly cripple one of the opponent's Pokemon for the remainder of the game at the cost of losing a way to get past Pursuit users. If Thief is used, Gengar should use no item. Gengar can also use Fire Punch if more damage to Steelix, Heracross or Forretress is desired, but that means dropping coverage or the the aforementioned ability to get past Pursuit users. Counter is an option that may sound appealing, but Gengar is OHKO'd by most STAB Earthquakes, and the ones that don't, Steelix and Nidoking (a range), can be Fire Punched and Ice Punched, respectively. It also fails to OHKO Snorlax and Rock Slide Tyranitar with it, and these can be DynamicPunched anyway.

    Checks and Counters

    Gengar has no true counter, since it has tools to get past every Pokemon. It can, at the very least, take out most Pokemon with Explosion or Destiny Bond. Since Fire Punch is rare, Steelix is generally the safest Pokemon to counter it since it can threaten Gengar with Earthquake, although it doesn't like taking repeated Ice Punches. Raikou is probably the next closest thing to a counter, since it outspeeds, can Sleep Talk Hypnosis and can use Reflect to weaken Explosion. Snorlax can threaten Gengar if it packs Earthquake, but it needs to watch out for Explosion, Hypnosis and DynamicPunch. However, Gengar can't counter every Pokemon with only 4 moves, which means that once its moveset is known, the counter list starts to increase. If Gengar has Hypnosis, once it uses it, it becomes much easier to counter. Tyranitar can come in with inpunity and start hitting it with Rock Slides or trapping it with Pursuit. Umbreon can also achieve the same, but it can't threaten it outside of Pursuit and does much less damage due to its low Special Attack. It also needs to watch out for Explosion. If it's not using Ice Punch, any other Ground-types, such as Marowak, Nidoking, Rhydon or Golem, aren't really threatened by any of its moves except Destiny Bond and can fire very powerful Earthquakes. The first two should be wary of Explosion too. Houndoom can also be used to Pursuit trap it, but it's generally considered a subpar option.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
    FriendOfMrGolem120 likes this.
  2. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    you ever heard of missy?
     
  3. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    This isn't really true. It's at the top of OU viability rankings, but OU is artificial; Gengar is garbage in most Ubers contexts.
    especially


    Also, don't tag a just-written analysis GP Ready. Discussion Ready comes first.
     
  4. Troller

    Troller From Marcoasd's DNA Member

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    ._.
     
    Sceptross likes this.
  5. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    ok, didnt read that right
     
  6. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    magic9mushroom : implemented all by the introduction part, how do you suggest that I reword it?

    I also moved Steelix to the top of the "Checks and Counters" section, because, as Troller told me, Fire Punch is very rare and if it doesn't exist Steelix is the safest counter. I also removed Quagsire from the list of Ground types threatened by Ice Punch because Quagsire doesn't really care about it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2018
  7. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    why is Thunder generally preferred over Thunderbolt on the standard set?

    What do Thunder and Ice Punch hit? Why use electric+ice coverage rather than some other form of coverage - what would you be losing out on?

    The description of the second set just sucks. You say it works like Missy's set but is worse, but you don't say why you would use it over Misdreavus. How do you decide on the last slot? What would the attacks be useful for (hitting Cloyster)? Does it let it function as a more ordinary spinblocker that way, and bluff not being a perishtrap set for some time? When you use it, should you always use Mean Look before using Perish Song? What do you bring it in on? What pokemon usually switch into it and how easily can it trap them? Mention that Perish Song can be useful for finishing off last-mons.

    Mention that Raikou can carry roar to beat the rare perish-trap gengar. List the few flaws it has as a gengar counter because it's not obvious to me what they are - can it be exploded on? I guess anything that only fears explosion/dbond is the closest thing to a counter.

    Is that a complete list of decently viable counters? I don't know why, it feels weirdly short, lol.
     
  8. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    probably the surprise factor, DA is right that you should elaborate on this because:

    it is good for quick KO's
    and can keep your opponents on their toes.


    oh wait that rhymed im so cool
     
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  9. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Thunder(bolt) is Gengar's strongest move. It's not a matter of "hitting" anything. Other moves are coverage for T(bolt).
    There are literally three moves not covered in the analysis that don't obviously suck (Giga Drain, Shadow Ball and Psychic). Gengar's movepool is not large.
     
  10. Lojh

    Lojh I worship BORAT Member

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    Bolt-beam in every gen has been a very good special attacking combo. Only magneton resists it in gsc I think
     
  11. magic9mushroom

    magic9mushroom BEST END. Member

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    Well, depending on how you define "resists". There are a few things immune to Electric and neutral to Ice, and given Gengar doesn't actually have Ice Beam that does better than a neutral target. Nothing else resists both, though (Electric/Ice, Electric/Steel and Electric/Fire are the only typings that resist both without abilities).
     
  12. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Okay that's fine but it should be made clear, then. I didn't know why, and I should have found out why from the analysis :p
     
  13. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    The same reason Zapdos and Raikou run it most of the time. Power and 30% para chance. I'll add it.

    As m9m said, Gengar doesn't have so many good options. Psychic is good for... Heracross? it's not even good vs Machamp because it needs two high rolls to 2HKO whereas Machamp 2HKOs back (it OHKO's if it has one curse with EQ).

    The only advantage it has over Missy is surprise value, and that is mentioned on the description. Potential targets are also mentioned. I explain how to use PerishTrap (never Perish Trap before you Mean Look if your goal is to perish trap, thinking for more than 1o seconds should tell you why). About Thunder(bolt) the last move, it beats one of the most common phazers (Skarmory). That's pretty much its main use.

    Fair.

    I think the analysis already does this. I'll try to think of a way to reword it.

    Every Pokemon that is seen more than once in like 500 games is listed there.
     

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