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ADV 2U-L (Under1U) Exploration Part 2

Discussion in 'Analysis and Research' started by Disaster Area, Jul 5, 2017.

  1. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    SoonTM we will see a couple of changes to what's legal in the tier, with Raikou likely becoming a part of the tier, and cloyster and venusaur possibly leaving it. Unlike when the tier was first birthed, however, there's a lot of very good ADV 1U players who want to get involved in exploring the tier. So I felt like it was a good idea to recap what's already understood with regards to the tier, and where question marks remain.

    I'd also like to remind that in addition to the stuff that's in 1U banned, alakazam / espeon / medicham / slaking are also all banned.

    Powerful Choice Band Users

    One of the things that wasn't too hard to grasp was, what Pokemon wield a choice band well.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    These three were the only ones that were felt to really stand out. Dragonite has immense power with 134 base attack, and passable base 80 speed. Usually runs stuff like HP Flying, Earthquake, Focus Punch, Double Edge, can also run Body Slam or Sleep Talk. It can run a few different sets though and I'll talk about it later on. Tauros has higher speed at an impressive base 110, and base 100 attack, whilst lower, is pretty good when combined with normal stab, earthquake, and pursuit support being an option with houndoom. Intimidate is also pretty cool, and there's not many great normal resists around. Nidoking isn't so notable for its power, but as one of the best responses to SubPunch Registeel (really) it could get in more often and do some damage. However it's probably a bit overrated and depending on how the meta shifts it could really fall out of favour.

    Some other Pokemon could definitely work with a Choice Band depending on whether their traits are useful enough.

    [​IMG] - also has flying stab, and the resists and weaknesses the typing offers, baton pass, quick attack, and early bird.
    [​IMG] - really fast. really really fast. Also, guts. Lower power without guts tho. Agility, Baton Pass.
    [​IMG] - really really strong, also a normal resist, and has decent defense and stuff too. Also megahorn and swords dance. Trouble is that it competes with Marowak, and Golem has Explosion...
    [​IMG] - cb explosion and most of the same stuff as rhydon
    [​IMG] - great typing but pretty frail so can be hard to make use of that.
    [​IMG][​IMG] - slower and hit like trucks and have guts.
    [​IMG] - probably has better things to do as it has middling speed and stuff but it's probably the fastest thing with fighting type stab worth considering.
    [​IMG] - normal resist but less power behind it than rhydon or golem. no ground typing either.
    [​IMG] - high attack but struggles massively with moltres and is better off using agility and/or sd with either morning sun or baton pass [note: bp+morning sun is illegal, so is silver wind+reversal :( ]
    [​IMG] - also slow and hits like a truck and has guts, but it also can use SD.
    [​IMG] - fastest thing not called electrode or ninjax, even faster than swellow, with poison/flying stabs and shadow ball but only has like hp ground for rock and steel types.
    [​IMG] - kinda funny, average speed at 90, normal stab, immunity which is an interesting ability, swords dance, brick break, shadow ball, taunt, flail, focus punch... it has a deep movepool, although it's probably best doing something besides running CB?
    [​IMG] - slow, weak, but bulky, and has explosion. Kind of like a golem with a better typing...
    [​IMG] - slow, high attack, rapid spin, sd, bug stab but otherwise not exactly a good typing, but normal resist without ground weakness is kind of neat in a way. Knock off too...
    [​IMG] - 4x normal resist, 4x fight/ground weak though. 110 attack, monstrous defense, wide movepool with stuff like twave and subpunch in it. Rock Head for double edge... also has roar. Pretty slow.
    [​IMG] - pure power, but slow. Can drum too. No physical stab. But typing is different defensively to other prospective CBers.
    [​IMG] - only physically threatening ghost but frail as f.

    That pretty much covers prospective CBers but there's a whole lot of them, a lot of them very similar with minor differences (like armaldo/aggron/golem/rhydon/steelix/regirock, or crobat/dodrio/swellow/zangoose/tauros/dragonite).

    Also deserves a mention:
    [​IMG] - hits like an asbolute truck, but uses Thick Club. A real, valid choice and really stronk.

    Hazard Game

    First, spikes setters:
    [​IMG] - may depart from the tier. Spikes, Spin, Explosion, good defense, useless defensive typing. Not actually all that good but is viable if ya want spikes.
    [​IMG] - maybe one of the best spikes setters? Actually does something defensively! Resists normal and flying, which helps vs CBers. Can go offensive or defensive, has swift swim and monstrous SpA at base 125.
    [​IMG] - wide movepool but subpar stats and a weird typing. Can explode paralyze and all that jazz. Strange Pokemon.
    [​IMG] - spikes with spore, baton pass options, and surprise value. Could also spin I guess lol...
    [​IMG] - interesting typing, frail though, no sand to abuse sand veil with, ok attacking stats, but just not very good either.

    So in short most of the spikes setters kind of suck and are mostly kinda confusing in terms of how to use them. Does depend how much value you think you can actually get out of spikes.

    Spinners next:
    [​IMG] - good attack and defense and ok typing. Sort of the most obvious choice.
    [​IMG] - worse donphan with sd and more speed.
    [​IMG] - notable for spin and foresight and stuff but not that good.
    [​IMG] - fast spinner with toxic immunity, and poison and water stabs. Also Sub / SD (druidcruel) and stuff is notable.
    [​IMG] - funny mon with water and rock stabs, swift swim, sd, and rapid spin.
    [​IMG] - another spinner... bug stab and power and sd and knock off too. spin might be illegal with knock off or something though.

    Spinblockers:
    [​IMG] - vulernable to spikes, status, pursuit, has issues using its moveslots well enough as it wants to hit stuff like houndoom as well as do other jobs.
    [​IMG] - spikes immune, levitate so ground immune, but lower stats and cant make good use of its stab or hit very hard.
    [​IMG] - frailer version of misdreavus with toxic immunity.
    [​IMG] - much frailer, psychic immune version of dusclops with recover that's not as pursuit vulnerable.
    [​IMG] - frail but somewhat physically powerful.

    Pursuit
    [​IMG] - fantastic pursuit user. Pursuit, Crunch, Fire Blast / Flamethrower, + Roar / Toxic / Taunt / Rest / Wisp... early bird and flash fire are both pretty dope. Early Bird is cooler tho of the two.

    Baton Pass

    The only restrictions are no ingrain/belly drum+baton pass, so full chains are legal. Stuff that can be involved in that includes stuff like Mr. Mime, Smeargle, Vaporeon, etc.

    Besides that, AgiliPass Scizor+Marowak is a decent core.

    Trappassing with Umbreon and cursepassing with vaporeon/umbreon is also on the cards.

    Don't forget ninjask too!!

    Normal Resists

    Kind of important stuff to mention with regards really to what's beating CBers for the most part. Arcanine / Moltres are also worth a mention since they can take hits from tauros too, depending on evs and maybe rolls. Arcanine has intimidate good bulk and can use rest, moltres has morning sun. Besides those, anyway, here we go:

    Most of the stuff was already mentioned: Aggron / Armaldo / Banette / Dusclops / Golem / Haunter / Kabutops / Misdreavus / Omastar / Regirock / Rhydon / Sableye / Scizor / Solrock / Steelix

    Also noteworthy:
    [​IMG] - cmpass, hypnosis, different stat spread to solrock
    [​IMG] - amazing mixed wall, one of the best mons in the tier lol.
    [​IMG] - lol. Pursuit fucks it out of being viable in this tier.

    also noteworthy as a physical tank is weezing, with levitate, wisp, pain split, etc. but it struggles a little with pursuit and splitting evs and stuff. Shuckle Cradily and Magnemite are all pretty bad but worth noting for completeness.

    Rain

    [​IMG][​IMG]

    Rain kinda struggles to be relevant. Special walls like Registeel / Chansey body it for days, and other good natural checks like Lanturn are around. Omastar / Qwilfish were mentioned earlier; Ludicolo / Kingdra are interesting in different ways. Water+dragon is perfect neutral coverage, and leech seed and stuff is cool too.

    Sleep

    Sleepers kinda struggle w/ the fact that Houndoom is a great sleep absorber.

    [​IMG] - might depart the tier. Good all round stats, but lack of ground resistance is annoying considering all else it does. Sleep, Leech, Giga Drain, Sludge Bomb, HP Ice/Fire, Roar, etc. SD + Sludge Bomb + EQ... it has a movepool to work with for sure.
    [​IMG] - bit of a menace but dragonite is a solid stop lol. Venusaur is great too... it has its flaws but is pretty good. Has a wide movepool can do many things.
    [​IMG] - struggles with houndoom blanking everything it does, with psychic/grass stabs + hp fire all resisted or immune, and hound having early bird for sleep powder. Can boom on it but means if you were relying on it to boom through say a chansey you can't do that at all reliably. Stun/Sub/Seed/Psychic is workable but it has the capacity to be a monster when hound isn't around...
    [​IMG] - also blanked by hound, but at least psychic+hp water is actually mostly pretty good coverage (except steels but eh)... trouble is that then its also blanked by stuff like special walls etc. the meta is unkind to it.
    [​IMG] - idk how to use this mon well lol. sleep is cool, fast af subseed is cool, encore is cool, grass stab is cool, sd + aerial ace + hp ground is kinda cool too, but its stats all round except speed are kinda low.
    [​IMG] - subpar stats, but cm + hypnosis + damp is pretty cool.
    [​IMG] - has hypnodrum...
    [​IMG][​IMG] - fast fire type with hypnosis... both also have flash fire
    [​IMG] - has hypnosis + insomnia but like, blanked hard by houndoom. Needs CM + HP Water which is very restrictive on its moveset; bulky wish sets can also kind of sit vs houndoom.
    [​IMG] - apparently the soundproof BPer can hypnosis too...
    [​IMG] - stronking great 125 SpA stat but 80 spe and fucked by hound again unless u run cm hp water i guess.

    Smeargle was already mentioned twice lol. And haunter. Didn't mention sing users (of which there's a few lol)

    Trapping

    Besides pursuit, there's not much of this. Trapinch has 100 atk and EQ stab with arena trap however, whilst diglett is weak but faster. Might be able to trap some stuff like chansey or houndoom though...

    S Ranks

    Analyses here:
    ADV 2U (Under1U) - Dragonite [GP Ready] | Pokémon Perfect
    ADV 2U (Under1U) - Registeel [GP Ready] | Pokémon Perfect
    ADV 2U (Under1U) - Chansey [GP Ready] | Pokémon Perfect

    A look over them should give a good understanding just briefly, but basically:
    Dnite can run hard-hitting CB, can run DD+Heal Bell, for utility, DD+Leichi for alternative hard hitter approach, defensive heal bell, and subpunch with fire blast+dragon claw. DD+HP Rock lures moltres/articuno. Chansey is a special wall with softboiled, status move like tox or twave, stoss to hit stuff with, counter to bop shit with bc it takes cb tauros for like 70% lmao, and wish/heal bell for utility. Can't really hit stuff with ice beam / tbolt very hard unless 4x weak lol. Registeel's by far and away best set is subpunch rock slide twave which sets up really easily and is really hard to take down. curse+explosion is cool, can run uninventive pivot set, and curse+rest for wincon.

    Dnite answers of sorts

    Besides CBNite switchins etc. Some of the stuff i mentioned before like solrock/lunatone can work too but i'm covering stuff ive not talked about yet.
    [​IMG] - morning sun, hp ice, great physical bulk, dgaf unless its hp rock, cb can annoy it a bit tho, and dd can annoy it if it crits.
    [​IMG] - same story as molt with ice stab (so ohkos rather than 2hkos) and no morning sun, but has great bulk, has heal bell, has roar... ice+grass coverage is best generally bc hp elec is doing jack to fires anyway except molt/zard which you do ok damage with ice beam to, and hp grass does more to omastar/quagsire.
    [​IMG] - cool bulky water with insane bulk and wish and stuff. Just struggles from 4MSS mainly.
    [​IMG] - doesnt love to switch into cb and ice beam only 2hkos but its ok. Water absorb and stuff is cool. Damp is kinda neat too i guess? Not too many exploders tho. You basically need a grass move on your team tho to beat curse quagsire jsyk, just good advice.
    [​IMG] - no real recovery except rest and leftovers, but has a wide movepool and stuff and surf to scare off houndoom, whilst ice beam smacks dnite.
    [​IMG] - mostly outclassed by articuno, except for like access to perish song and dragon dance lol. Grounded, weaker to focus punch, but takes dd hp rock fine.

    Other shit

    [​IMG] - could be joining the tier. Not sure about how to beat it yet, there's a few ground types around but kou could probably overpower most of them easily enough.
    [​IMG] - subcm can get past just about anything, might be broken but wasnt used too much originally. fire+ice coverage covers it against everything except waters but they struggle to break its sub, whilst fire+grass struggles against dnite which can be chipped at but breaks subs easily usually.
    [​IMG] - best marowak answer, beats quagsire comfortably...
    [​IMG] - rd user with baton pass and stuff i guess?
    [​IMG] - milk drink, heal bell, curse, good speed, thick fat.
    [​IMG] - sooooo bulky with intimidate and good stats all around, but kinda bad typing.
    [​IMG] - belly drum + espeed


    Shit idk how to use very well:

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    plus some other stuff i mentioned earlier like blaziken for example...
    i'm also terrible with figuring out how to work stuff like endrev / endflail, which a number of things learn and could use like zangoose, kabutops, dodrio, blaziken, scyther etc. as well as endeavor and stuff

    these could also be useful:
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
    fast electrics like manectric/raichu/electabuzz?

    think i more or less covered everything lol. Happy battling!
     
  2. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    I see Diglett's been snubbed, only got a little blurb on trapping:

    [​IMG]
    Don't forget this thing exists, if Cloyster goes this thing eats Spikers alive, deletes Raikou if you can get it paralyzed (could also run Endure + Salac, though even Adamant needs chip to KO uninvested Raikou without CB), and preys upon a number of key threats such as Houndoom, Lanturn and Breloom. It has issues switching into anything (not like that ever stopped Dugtrio) and it's a little slower than it would prefer to be (100 base speed would be perfect as it could revenge Adamant Tauros), but it is still capable of removing key threats from the metagame (especially spikers if no Cloyster). Could also help Psychics by murdering Houndoom for them.

    [​IMG]
    Only really notable if Cloyster's gone, it's a spiker that can boom and doesn't automatically crumble to Diglett if the little mole ends up plaguing 2U, unfortunately Registeel easily blanks its offenses.

    [​IMG]
    Backup for Venusaur if it leaves for 1U, stats are fairly close and has a similar movepool (-Roar/Overgrow/EQ, +Aromatherapy/Chlorophyll).

    [​IMG]
    Electabuzz @ Leftovers
    Ability: Static
    EVs: 8 HP / 68 Atk / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
    Hasty Nature
    - Thunderbolt
    - Ice Punch
    - Hidden Power [Ground]
    - Thunder Wave
    ^- A little something I theorymonned for a Raikou metagame. EVs are a bit specific: 180 speed with a positive nature is the minimum investment to outspeed Timid Houndoom/Jolly Diglett as well as Adamant Tauros, 68 Attack paired with HP Ground lets it beat Raikou 1v1, keep Lanturn from freely switching in and beating it 1v1, and gets a reliable 2HKO on Houndoom that neutral-natured Thunderbolt can't get, 8 HP brings Electabuzz's HP to 273 HP which is 1 above the 272 'magic number', and finally the rest is dumped in SpA (which conveniently adds up to 252). Registeel and Chansey though are massive problems for it, and the most it can do back is annoy them with Thunder Wave (prevents Registeel's SubWavePunch shenanigans atleast). Doubt it'll be great, but I think it'll work assuming the new 2U metagame resembles the old one.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2017

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