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RBY OU / 1U (OverUsed) Endgame Analysis #2

Discussion in 'Analysis and Research' started by peach_nair, Aug 5, 2017.

  1. peach_nair

    peach_nair Member

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    I've always found the endgame to be extremely fun to play yet difficult to master. I want to discuss the endgame of a recent match I had on ladder vs ramzi86, a player that challenges me, and a player that I usually have great games with.

    [Gen 1] OU replay: peach_nair vs. ramzi86 - Pokémon Showdown

    I would like to begin discussing this match at the end of turn 23, when ramzi86's Exeggutor used Explosion to trade with my Chansey. At the end of that turn, no Pokemon were on the field due to the trade, and choosing a Pokemon to send out in that situation could set the pace for the rest of the match.

    ramzi86's Pokemon
    [​IMG] 86% - Paralyzed - Revealed Psychic, Thunder Wave, Recover
    [​IMG] 100% - No Status - Revealed Body Slam
    [​IMG]6% - No Status - Revealed Thunderbolt


    peach_nair's Pokemon

    [​IMG] 77% - Asleep from Lovely Kiss (1 sleep turn burned) - Revealed Lovely Kiss
    [​IMG]8% - Paralyzed - Revealed Psychic
    [​IMG] 100% - No Status - Revealed Body Slam
    [​IMG] 68% - No Status - Revealed Thunder Wave


    How I see each Pokemon's role and potential usefulness in this match:

    Ramzi86's Alakazam can beat my Exeggutor and Jynx with ease, as long as it does not get fully paralyzed. It can also paralyze and beat my Starmie, which i view as its most important role in this match, as my Starmie is a big problem for his Tauros and Zapdos. Using Thunder Wave on Tauros or Starmie is its highest priority.

    Ramzi68's Tauros can beat my Exeggutor and Jynx, as well as go for the Tauros ditto vs my Tauros. The unparalyzed Starmie is a huge threat to this Tauros, as if it paralyzes the Tauros, my Tauros and Starmie will run rampant.

    Ramzi86's Zapdos can beat my Exeggutor and Jynx, though it easily goes down to Tauros or Starmie. Tauros or Starmie will need to get paralyzed to have Zapdos be useful as anything other than switch fodder.

    My Exeggutor and Jynx are both pretty much useless. Jynx could potentially wake up against Alakazam in an endgame scenario, though it is unlikely. Both are mostly switch fodder.

    My Tauros is a threat to everything on ramzi's team. Zapdos is in Body Slam range, and Alakazam has a good chance to die to Hyper Beam. A Tauros ditto is possible, though if my Tauros loses, ramzi's Alakazam is a big problem.

    My Starmie will be extremely difficult for ramzi to take down. With two Pokemon to fodder off to Alakazam looking to use Thunder Wave, paralyzing Starmie will be no easy task. Starmie can kill Zapdos easily, and can also paralyze and damage Tauros, making ramzi's win almost impossible.

    What is the optimal play for each player? What Pokemon should be sent out? How should each player approach taking down Alakazam and Starmie, the main mons preventing a quick and safe sweep?
     
  2. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Imo the best play for both players is going to Tauros. From your perspective, Tauros has the best overall matchup, cleanly beating Zap, probably KOing Zam and being a coinflip against the opposing Tauros. On the other hand, Ramzi's Zap simply loses while if Ramzi goes Tauros they're looking at a 50% ditto, or if you send out Star then Zam can comfortably come in, while going Zam vs your Tauros is risky as hell.

    In general I think you ought to be playing for the Tauros-Zam matchup (usually by foddering your pokemon vs Tauros then sending Star in to bait Zam out) as they have no way of stopping your Tauros from doing significant damage then besides foddering Zap (this assumes they take the safe option). Will they actually go Zam? I think at first they do, since they can always fodder Zap if you double so there's little risk, but the second time around they might make the ballsy play and stay in with Tauros, as a second Taur-Zam matchup will probably cost them the game (lose their answer to Star or take damage with Tauros and thus lose the ditto). Meanwhile staying in with Tauros is favourable if you double as the damage means they win the ditto, while even if you predict correctly Tauros has a decent chance of simply haxing your Starmie.

    Another thing to consider is that if they bring Zam in as you go for the para from Starmie, you can always go directly to Tauros- it still threatens Zam, while the fact that you no longer win the ditto is mitigated by Starmie being able to para and weaken their Tauros
     
  3. peach_nair

    peach_nair Member

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    The way I thought about this endgame:

    From my perspective: Ideally I'd like to sweep with Tauros --> I'd rather avoid a Tauros ditto if I can, since it's 50/50 --> send Starmie in on their highly likely Tauros to force it out --> double to Tauros to cover the obvious switch to Alakazam on my Starmie --> fodder something off to Tauros to get my Starmie in on it to cripple it --> Sweep with Tauros.

    Alternatively: Starmie can beat Tauros and Zapdos, but it cannot beat Alakazam without major hax --> find a way to use Hyper Beam on Alakazam with Tauros to open up a sweep for Starmie --> I will have to get through Ramzi's Tauros first before he exposes his Alakazam to my Tauros --> I must not use Tauros for the ditto, since if I lose the ditto, the Alakazam will sweep my team.

    From Ramzi's perspective: Alakazam can beat Exeggutor, Jynx, and Starmie, but is in danger vs Tauros. After an Explosion in an endgame scenario, both players often send out Tauros --> Send in my Tauros to meet peach's Tauros --> if I win the ditto, switch Alakazam in on the Starmie followup to paralyze it and most likely beat it --> Sweep with Zam --> If I lose the Tauros ditto, Alakazam should be able to revenge Tauros, and either paralyze or beat Starmie --> Zapdos or Alakazam can sweep.
     

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