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Community Discussion About Number of RBY Tournaments

Discussion in 'RBY OU Seasons' started by Sceptross, Jul 12, 2018.

  1. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    This thread is the continuation of a topic which started in the RBY OU Master Tournament #45 thread, regarding the number of tournaments in RBY on Pokemon Perfect.

    - Disaster Area

    ---

    Never in my life have I played a tournament set so forced, I was playing the games just wanting them to end asap.

    ggs

    EDIT: Just for clarification, my problem is not with RBY, I still have a lot of fun playing RBY - What I have problems with is tournaments, please feel free to continue to PM me for friendlies when you see me!

    We may indeed need to reduce the number of tournaments.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2018
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  2. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    or u need to enter fewer

    confirming, great set.

    Sharing game 4 bc that was one I felt I played pretty well (overcome bad MU + being frozen turn 3!)

    Also the set was so wild that I actually OHKOd a Golem with a Starmie Hydro Pump in one of the games...
     
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  3. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    It doesn't work like that. If I want to have the highest possible odds at winning a season I need to join all MTs. If I want to win a Cup trophy I need to join the Cup. In the end, I need to join all the tours to maximize my odds of winning pixels.

    It can get very overwhelming. Specially when I want to make sure the RBY torch continues burning and try to make my part to ensure it does.
     
  4. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Then u need to prioritise what tours u care about more if u can't play them all. Either go for the cups or go for a season or master tour win. We're not reducing the number of tournaments because you can't play your best in all of them simultaneously. Lusch has been participating in fewer tournaments because he can't play all of them all the time, maybe he can offer you some advice on prioritising what you want to participate in.
     
  5. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    Actually, it was not me who initially proposed this. I had complaints from other players that there are too many RBY tours and one can feel overwhelmed. I simply agreed.
     
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  6. EB0LA

    EB0LA TOUR BANNED Member

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    Tbh a break does wonders for when you're feeling burnt out. You come back on top of your game frfr!
     
  7. tjdaas

    tjdaas Moderator

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    We could just do Season-PPL-Season-WCoPP-WC instead of just fitting as many Season (3-4) in a year as possible. With Cups as well, I think both ADV and RBY have a lot of tours, not counting the many unofficial format as DA's Gimmick tour or Marco's Netbattle one (in other tiers I think we are already fine with 2-3 season+wc). I have not calculated if we can do this without major overlaps (we already start the next MT if the current one takes more than 1 month iirc, so that wouldn't be a problem), but it seems possible. I know that the premise of PP was to have old gen tournament all year long, but I have the feeling that some people who want to do well at those tournaments are being burned-out to quick, which will hurt the quality of the tours more than we gain by the higher quantity. Also PPL and WCoPP are also old gen tournaments and due to the high inclusivity of our team tours have, these can be counted as old gen tours as well.

    So I think that moving to less tours, Season-PPL-Season-WCoPP-WC, in one year is fine and probs also better for the players (and the hosts).
     
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  8. ErPeris

    ErPeris Do or do not. There is no try. Season Host

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    I think it's a pointless discussion. The more tournaments there are, the better it is, nobody is obliged to participate in every single tour.
    People like me have fallen in love with pokemon perfect because it gives me the chance to do many tours in Rby, which is something that I can't do elsewhere.
     
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  9. Troller

    Troller From Marcoasd's DNA Member

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    As people said you are not forced to play all the tours, if you really want to win a season play them all, if you don't play what you want. Season till now required this amount of tours to be won and i'd like not to see "discount seasons" because i like the goals to be difficult and worth something once you finally get them.
    Also i already doubt there's a way for mortals to catch Marcoasd on total points of 300+, with less tours it would be even more absurd.
     
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  10. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    Having too many tournaments spreads out the players - example: if everyone wants to play only 2 seasons and we have 3, 2/3s of the community will be in each season.

    If we have only 2 seasons, we will have the full force in both seasons, increasing the quality of the tournaments.

    I worry about this because I see more and more players dropping out the seasons. 2-3 seasons ago we almost every top RBYer participating in the seasons, with a constant flow of new, promising players joining too. Nowadays, both taps are being turned off and the stream is not keeping up with the speed the water is being drained down the sink.

    I'm not trying to be a villain here, I'm just trying to voice a significant portion of the RBY community, in the most civilized but assertive manner possible.
     
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  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    We could... always stop doing team tours. :p

    ---

    In all seriousness, they came after the seasons and are a thing Peas and I have considered wanting to cancel previously. But to be honest, there's already Smogon & PO tournaments going on which people could also consider dropping. I don't think playing the season + WC + WCoPP + PPL on its own is too much, and there are gaps between the seasons of a couple weeks plus there are gaps for a couple weeks if / when you lose too. We have a perfectly fine amount of tournaments on here.
     
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  12. tjdaas

    tjdaas Moderator

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    How many seasons is normal to have in 1 year?

    Because atm I don't think there is time for a third ADV season in the last 4 months of this year if we don't want significant overlap between it, the WC and the 4 remaining Cups, disregarding WCoPP and Smogon tours (ADV ssnls comes to mind). It is still possible to do, but there will be players that can't join all of them and we also need to find a new WC host (because I wont host 3-4 tours at the same time) or a second season host like the Karp/Sceptross combination (which would be nice).

    In RBY it is possible to host 3 seasons this year without overlap due to this season being relative short, but I still think that if a significant amount of the people think there are too many tours planned, we may need to listen to them and find a solution. If there is only a small subset of people, then I think the old system, for rby at least, is fine.
     
  13. Lusch

    Lusch A critical hit! Member

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    Sceptross
    You say you voice the opionion of many RBY players in the community. Can you refer to those people? Because I'm actualy curious.

    I see it basically like Troller, Disaster Area and ErPeris do. No one forces you (not specifically refering to you, Scept) to play every single tour. Of course if you want to win a Saéason you have to play all the MTs, but if that is too much for you, maybe you should not aim to win a season.

    Ultimately playing Pokemon tours can only get as overwhelming as the player lets it get. If you don't pressure yourself you can play 5 tours at a time (given you have the free time). It only gets overwhelming if you have the false standard of having to win every tour.

    I think it is exactly what differentiates PP from other communities, that you have individual tours all year round. Giving players the opportunity to play on the tournament scene. I'd hate to see it getting reduced. That does not mean that I want to join all 3 seasons every time, but the opportunity should definitely be given.

    I'd rather give up team tours over here (if I had a say) than giving up a season or Cup. Individual tours are what the overall Pokemon community is lacking in Old gens. Team tours you can get elsewhere.

    As for the point that season quality declines... well... If every tour would be stacked as fuck, no tour would be (if you know what I mean). It's not a bad thing. Of course playing over years every season is draining. I myself started prioritizing the Cups once I've won my season, it works just fine. Know what you want to play and what you can handle, and no one should be overwhelmed.

    tl,;dr It's the players fault if he lets himself get overwhelmed by playing too many tours. Chosing what tours to play is the key to not get "overwhelmed".
     
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  14. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    The goal is pretty much host 3 seasons a year, at least for the larger seasons. With 64 or fewer players, that's easily possible.

    Small seasons can have 4 seasons a year.

    Also, duly noted about needing someone to host the WC/other cups. We can ask Marcop9923/Dizno to help with the cup hosting if we need and I am happy to host the WC. We can sort this out closer to the time, tho, and is something we should decide over discord really rather than on the forums. ^^
     
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  15. Sceptross

    Sceptross Leader

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    roudolf13 and Lutra were the two people that mentioned that reason as one of the prime reasons to stopping to play tours and the main two I meant when I said that "I had complaints from other players that there are too many RBY tours and one can feel overwhelmed.". Other people, like tjdaas, seemed to agree with my point after I made that initial post.
     
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  16. Lutra

    Lutra Site Founder Owner

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    Well I originally meant for master tournaments to not exceed 32 man and 9 over the year. World Championship, International League and Ultra League where there to make the season more interesting, as were exhibition matches and the gyms/live tours. Then came cups when players would finish the 16 man master tournaments early. At this point, the seasons were kind of saturated. Hosting demands gradually shifted to just doing master tournaments, world championship, and cups in RBY OU Seasons I believe. The difficulty is I made all these tours to fill the time and and now it's desperately hard for others to make their own tournaments to fill this time, because it's important to keep some history at least.

    I think master tournaments and their quantity should remain as a backbone. But the unique tournaments should reflect the ideas of who is in charge of RBY OU Seasons. We can always move tournaments to the background and bring them back at a later date.
     
  17. Golden Gyarados

    Golden Gyarados Moderator

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    I also wouldn't mind dropping the team tours, they haven't really gelled into PP's culture the way I think many of us had hoped.

    I wouldn't necessarily want to drop any of the individual tours, although we should probably make sure we do limit it to just three seasons a year rather than trying to cram a fourth in. As Lutra noted above, other unique formats can fill in the space.
     
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  18. Lusch

    Lusch A critical hit! Member

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    Same argument. I'm with Lutra here, 3 seasons a year should stay. Cups are also cool. This is enough though, we certainly don't need more than that, but also not less I think. (maybe I like keeping to tradition a bit much, and this is basically PP's tradition...)
    Repeating myself here, but no player is obligated to play them all. The only way I can see that this is getting overwhelming is when you as a player pressure yourself to play (or even win) them all. But that is on you then... [again, "you" refering to the general public, not you, sceptross, specifically. Just to avoid confusion]

    Edit: In my ideal world PP would probably not have team tours (maybe one, preferably WCoPP, but not 2) and would only cover gens 1-4 in general but all with 3 seasons per year, and all with the 6 cups. But obviously you need the interest and playerbase, which makes this unrealistic for at least GSC. ADV works sensaionally for what it's worth.
     
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  19. Troller

    Troller From Marcoasd's DNA Member

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    Team tours are the best thing this cheap ass game offers, the best way to connect different generations of players and making some solid friendships. If you don't know how to handle some dramas and stupid persons quit internet not team tours.
     
  20. Linkin Karp

    Linkin Karp 从来没有幸运,但有时橡胶鸭子。 Season Host

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    let me start with a clear opinion. I can't speak for GSC and DPP which are semi-dead but in RBY, reducing the number of MTs would do a lot of damage with over 50 total signups in the current season and there's not really any reason to do so. I've always viewed the MTs as a training ground of some sort, a regular tournament that doesn't mean much and where it's okay if new players can drop out very quickly / good players drop from time to time against luckier weaker players, hence the single elim format. we definitely need that 9 times a year, and I imagine the situation is similar in ADV. lots of top players have taken breaks from MTs for entire seasons, some like Diegolh never entered one again after using them to get recognition at the beginning, doesn't mean they've quit RBY. you can be recognized as top x without continuously playing seasons and appearing in the player ranking, nobody would dare to say asd isn't the best (or not even top 3) because he doesn't appear up there. if you really want to win the season then you gotta put in time for it, that's how it works. if we all put as much time and effort into the game as Peasounay did early '17 half of us would be the next Peasounay in terms of achievement. everyone needs to decide for themselves how many tours they enter, and that holds especially true for the MTs, which are the least important ones to be sure.

    similar about cups, I don't think anyone even remotely thinks about cutting down the number, they are already established as entertainment tours, mainly for the 20%-80% skill percentile of the playerbase and a lot of top players don't enter them at all. if you really want to get indigo: better win one or join many. again, no one's forcing you to do that. but a lot of people have fun playing 6 cups a year.

    now for the rest. first of all I've never gotten the point of the RBY WC, would be nice if someone could elaborate. if I hadn't been blown out of it R1 stage 1 (lol rip) it would've been way too much with the concurrent MT and WCoPP. there's not really a better timeslot tho, except maybe after WCoPP during winter. summer is always bad for tours with a fixed schedule due to many people going on vacation (see my response in the Fuchsia discussion), and this holds especially true for the 2-stage format which can't afford more than 1-2 extensions per round (in Indigo, which has a similar format, one single extension snowballed through the entire tour until that player dropped out like R4 stage 2).

    team tours are ok and if we remove them that would honestly be pretty sad for the like 60% of us that unconditionally enjoy them through drama. we really need to cut down the PPL format to 6 teams again, and maybe change WCoPP to like ANYTHING except 238-week round robin. 2 groups à x teams, with qualifiers between the weakest contenders from last year / possibly new teams at the start so we ideally have x = 6. please not more than those two tho.

    other than that, we don't need to pretend to be Smogon. yes I get it, we can do retiering (but don't force it down the throats of the 80% that just want to play their RBY-DPP OU tiers in peace), we can do GSC LC 3U New Frontiers, we can do livetours. just keep in mind that at most 10 people will take part in any of these ambitious projects, and if you're saying the majority of the people that play the current "1U" MTs are genuinely interested in taking part in retiering, rather than doing it as a way to pass time or try some different tier for once, you're wrong. the abundance of failed tour ideas is built on a mindset that we need to compete with Smogon for the role of best mons community. that is not what PP does, and if we focus on that the site will go down the drain. we don't need to copy Smogon Tour 1:1 because like 10% of the active playerbase play live tours on the PP server. if we truly feel that we have too many tours, this is the place to start cutting down on.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
  21. marcoasd

    marcoasd Host Emeritus

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  22. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    The idea of the world championship is to have a tournament at the end of the year which is open to everyone and is about finding the best. Lutra's format reduces variability and ensures that most of the best players don't get haxed out early. The fact that it finishes not long before the SPL auction is also nice.
     
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