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BW Ubers / 1U (Universal) BW2 1U Viability Rankings

Discussion in 'Tiers' started by Ortheore, May 2, 2017.

  1. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Welcome to the BW2 1U Viability Ranking thread! In case you're not familiar with the concept, we place Pokémon in certain ranks here, based on their impact on the tier as well as their general viability in the tier. This is an excellent help while teambuilding and it serves as a general outline of the tier. Furthermore it is used in our formation of the tier below.

    If you feel that a Pokémon is misplaced, feel free to make a post about it - that's what this thread is for. As long as you are reasonably sensible and courteous this thread should run smoothly.

    Pokemon are sorted into ranks based on how well they perform in their roles. They are ordered alphabetically within each ranking to avoid overcomplication.

    S Rank

    These Pokémon are the most effective Pokémon in the metagame. They extremely potent threats to the point where they are the defining figures of the tier.


    [​IMG]Arceus-Ghost
    [​IMG]Dialga
    [​IMG]Genesect
    [​IMG]Kyogre

    A Rank

    These Pokemon perform significant roles in the metagame, and perform them very well, however they are not the most dominating forces.


    A+

    [​IMG] Arceus
    [​IMG]Darkrai
    [​IMG]Deoxys-S
    [​IMG]Giratina-O
    [​IMG]Groudon
    [​IMG]Latias

    A


    [​IMG] Arceus-Grass
    [​IMG] Arceus-Fighting
    [​IMG]Ferrothorn
    [​IMG]Ho-oh
    [​IMG]Mewtwo
    [​IMG]Palkia
    [​IMG]Skarmory

    A-


    [​IMG] Arceus-Water
    [​IMG]Deoxys-A
    [​IMG]Forretress
    [​IMG]Latios
    [​IMG]Rayquaza
    [​IMG]Tyranitar
    [​IMG]Zekrom

    B Rank


    These Pokemon are strong choices in the metagame, but perform less important roles or are less consistent than Pokémon in the Rank above. They have larger flaws than Pokémon in above ranks, or face greater competition from similar Pokemon, reducing their usefulness.

    B+

    [​IMG]Arceus-Ground
    [​IMG] Arceus-Steel
    [​IMG]Excadrill
    [​IMG]Giratina
    [​IMG]Jirachi
    [​IMG]Kabutops
    [​IMG]Landorus-T
    [​IMG]Terrakion

    B

    [​IMG]
    Arceus-Dark
    [​IMG] Arceus-Rock
    [​IMG]Cloyster
    [​IMG]Gliscor
    [​IMG]Heatran
    [​IMG]Hippowdon
    [​IMG]Kingdra
    [​IMG]Omastar
    [​IMG]Tentacruel

    B-

    [​IMG]Arceus-Electric
    [​IMG]Blaziken
    [​IMG]Bronzong
    [​IMG]Froslass
    [​IMG]Garchomp
    [​IMG]Lugia
    [​IMG]Shaymin-S
    [​IMG]Tornadus-T

    C Rank

    These Pokemon are more infrequent sights in the metagame, particularly in top level matches, but are nevertheless viable Pokemon. They are less effective in the metagame than Pokémon in above ranks, but are effective with proper support.


    C+

    [​IMG] Arceus-Fire
    [​IMG] Arceus-Flying
    [​IMG]Arceus-Psychic
    [​IMG]Chansey
    [​IMG]Espeon
    [​IMG]Gastrodon
    [​IMG]Kyurem-W
    [​IMG]Reshiram
    [​IMG]Xatu

    C

    [​IMG] Arceus-Dragon
    [​IMG]Blissey
    [​IMG]Deoxys-D
    [​IMG]Gothitelle
    [​IMG]Landorus
    [​IMG]Ludicolo
    [​IMG]Thundurus
    [​IMG]Victini
    [​IMG]Wobuffet

    C-

    [​IMG] Arceus-Ice
    [​IMG] Arceus-Poison
    [​IMG]Magnezone
    [​IMG]Manaphy
    [​IMG]Sableye
    [​IMG]Scizor
    [​IMG]Shiftry
    [​IMG]Smeargle
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2018
  2. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Following discussion on Discord we've sorted A rank into A+ and A-. Down the road there'll be three subranks but this will do for the time being. Also B and C are still in need of discussion!

    edit: also bumped Zek to A- and Tenta to B

    ================
    Merged posts because I'm about to post again and I don't want too many in a row
    Below was from May 9

    So for those of you not on Discord, a whole bunch of changes have been proposed by Contact. I think he's still working on his version of the rankings so I'll refrain from going into them in too much depth, however based on what he's sent me I'm going to make a few changes that I feel aren't very contentious- there are many more proposed changes, it's just I'll wait until Contact's finished and there's been some discussion first

    FightCeus A+->A.
    Giratina, Cloyster, Tornadus-T C->B
    Kabutops, Omastar A->B

    Also I dropped Scizor to C. Please don't ask me what it was doing so high for I have no idea

    For everyone's reference pokemon within a subrank are in alphabetical order rather than being individually ranked. Also don't be shy about posting here!
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2017
    DMA and drud like this.
  3. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Bump

    I went ahead and added the remaining subranks, so now A/B/C all have +/neutral/-. There'll probably be a billion things wrong with them so please let me know what you think!

    In addition to the new subranks, there's a few other changes that stick out to me:
    • Potentially bumping Gira-O to A+. This was suggested by Contact a while ago, but there was some other discussion on Discord doubting it so there wasn't any change. I think it ought to be A+ as it's imo the most splashable spinblocker as it gives excellent performance both offensively and defensively while not carrying Arc-Ghost's opportunity cost.
    • Zekrom to B+. Sure it's a threat, but Ground types and Ferrothorn are everywhere, which limits it a lot and also there are very few scenarios where picking it in a given role is the obvious choice. Instead it's something you build your team around rather than complementing some other idea. That's fine, but it does limit its usefulness somewhat.
    • Exca/GroundCeus to A-. Iirc this was another of Contact's suggestions and I certainly see the merit to it. GroundCeus is just a huge threat to any given team, whereas Exca is a really neat spinner with a good typing that you can comfortably slot onto a team and know it's not going to be a huge drag
     
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  4. DMA

    DMA Also known as CKW on SmogForums Member

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    Dialga to S
    Dialga is arguably the SR setter in the current metagame. It's just not that cause the Pokemon has a lot more usefulness. It's typing allows to take to straight up check Genesect, while carrying Thunder will allow it to take care of Kyogre. It gives a rough time to Arceus-Ghost as well. Roar + SR + Thunder Wave / Thunder + Draco Meteor bulky is probably Dialga's most effective set.There are many variations of this set alongside its offensive Choice Specs, LO, and Choice Scarf sets as well. Dialga gives a very hard time to bulkier teams due to being immune to Toxic, resist Stealth Rock damage, and carry coverage moves to break defensive cores.
     
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  5. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    I'm fairly neutral to the proposed suggestion tbh. Personally I'm not the biggest fan of Dialga's bulky sets, as their lack of recovery limits their defensive potential, while a lot of the things it would like to check can wear it down reasonably well- GhostCeus is actually a pretty good example here, as all of its offensive sets have the coverage necessary to dent Dialga pretty well, while defensive ones have Wisp. Offensive sets are pretty nice though, since it has all the power and coverage it needs, but that often means no SR or making it even less bulky.

    I guess the biggest thing is that its typing and natural bulk mean that you can slot it onto a team fairly easily and it can be a tool used to check almost anything your team needs, while in return its weaknesses are minimal and possible to cover for (if you had to have 2 weaknesses, Ground/Fighting would be one of the best combos to have because there's so much overlap)

    Anyway, I'll implement the above change unless anyone says otherwise
     
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  6. SaDiSTiCNarwhal

    SaDiSTiCNarwhal Always tired Member

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    Gastrodon to C+
    This Pokemon in my opinion is pretty nice. Its typing is great along with Storm Drain in walling Kyogre, one of the main threats in the tier. Solid recovery in Recover, a nice HP stat, and pretty good SpDef allow it to take Ice Beams, and Mirror Coat lets you deal damage back. Its offensive presence is pretty weak and can be set up on, but Toxic can deter setup. Its a nice addition to balance teams and in my opinion is a little more deserving than C. Personally, I would much rather use a Gastrodon than a Xatu.

    Froslass to B
    Great HO Spiker. There are obviously Deo-S, Deo-A, Custap Forre, and Custap Skarm, but that's why I feel B is deserved. Icy Wind for the next mon if needed, Taunt, Cursed Body, and Destiny Bond are all contributors. C- is no where near Froslass's true usefulness. It's not a niche mon; it does one thing, and pretty well too.

    I would love to hear back from people like CKW, Byron, Orth, and p2 if possible on what you guys think

    :]
     
  7. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Xatu is great though, especially if you're running something SR-weak

    Still, I can see Gastrodon in C+, like it'll never be great, but it can be okish against a lot of things. Ogre as mentioned, but also CM Arc (Toxic, but also Clear Smog) and Palkia (shaky, but Palk's a bloody menace so I'll take it)

    Froslass' low ranking is probably just due to personal bias on my part- I've never seen the appeal, but I'm not all that familiar with it. Like ghost typing doesn't mean a huge deal when everything KOs it, Taunt and Spikes are covered by other leads as well and idk it just doesn't add up to anything amazing for me. I'll pop it in B-
     
  8. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    bump bump bump

    Popped Gira-O in A+. This is partially based on its usage in WC, where it consistently saw similar usage to the S rank mons, with this being backed up by reason- it's by far the most splashable spinblocker in a tier dominated by hazards, due to GhostCeus having a much greater opportunity cost
     
  9. steelskitty

    steelskitty Season Host

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    what's the justification behind having amoonguss, exeggutor, scizor, and scolipede ranked? i can't think of niches for any of them.
     
  10. Ortheore

    Ortheore Leader

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    Honestly I can't recall. I'm going to go ahead and remove Amoonguss, Scoli and Egg because I think that's reasonable, but Scizor I'm a little hesitant on, since its typing is really fantastic defensively, and its stats and Roost could potentially allow it to survive a little longer than other Bug/Steels, giving it some defensive use. I mean I don't think it's good and I'm not opposed to unranking it, but I think it could be... usable?
     
  11. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Ball of Fur and Power Member

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    Can it pursuit trap lati@s or is hp fire very common / does it take too much from their attacks?

    It's certainly better in gen 6 where fairies exist and it gets a mega, and even then it's like a C rank in ORAS 1U rn
     
  12. Troller

    Troller From Marcoasd's DNA Member

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    Scolipede is the best tspikes setter and can also use spikes+endeavour.
    Exeggutor the strongest Solar Beammer+Chlorophyll.
    CBScizor a decent revengekiller:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ghost: 138-163 (36.2 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    No idea about Amoongus but they have a niche and deserves to be ranked
     

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