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Pokémon [APRIL FOOLS] Latias Freed

Discussion in 'News' started by Enigami, Apr 1, 2019.

  1. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    After much testing and collaboration with tidaas, Lutrɑ, FriendOfMrGolem12O, HS0WA, and SɑmuelBest, it has been decided that Latias will be put in 1U/OU in RBY, GSC and ADV. This is sure to be a controversial decision, but a necessary one in certain cases.

    Many top players of RBY such as marcoasd, Peasounay and The Idiot Ninja (who even started a thread on Smogon discussing it) have expressed discontent with the "Reflect Meta" of RBY 1U/OU, and though a number of options were looked at, it was determined that adding Latias via "ACE patching" (so that it is possible on cartridge) is the best solution that will ultimately correct the state of the metagame. With Latias integrated into the game, many dynamics change, particularly where Chansey and Snorlax are concerned.

    Snorlax Body Slam vs. Latias: 105-124 (28.9 - 34.1%) -- 2% chance to 3HKO
    Snorlax Ice Beam vs. Latias: 90-106 (24.7 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
    Snorlax Hyper Beam vs. Latias: 186-219 (51.2 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Latias Psychic vs. Snorlax: 153-180 (29.2 - 34.4%) -- 4.1% chance to 3HKO
    Chansey Ice Beam vs. Latias: 120-142 (33 - 39.1%) -- 100% chance to 3HKO
    Chansey Seismic Toss vs. Latias: 100-100 (27.5 - 27.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
    Latias Earthquake vs. Chansey: 171-201 (24.3 - 28.5%) -- 98.9% chance to 4HKO
    Latias Earthquake vs. Chansey on a critical hit: 331-390 (47 - 55.4%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO

    With Latias' strong bulk, access to instant recovery, high crit rate and special drops from Psychic, Latias has a pretty strong matchup against the Reflect users. Without Hyper Beam or Selfdestruct, Snorlax is in serious danger of being crit, suffering Spc drops or just being outlasted by Latias' instant recovery. And with Hyper Beam or Selfdestruct, Reflect Snorlax becomes fodder for Rhydon and Gengar. Latias' presence should push Snorlax towards PhysLax or AmneLax, reducing the prominence of ReflectLax in the current metagame. Without Ice Beam, Chansey only 4HKOs Latias with no chance of crit or freeze, leaving Latias plenty of room to fish for Spc drops or Earthquake crits. Despite Latias' strengths, it does have some serious drawbacks: weakness to the common Ice-type attacks, merely speed-tieing Tauros and Gengar instead of moving first like the other fast Psychics, and rather serious 4MSS, wanting all of its coverage + Recover + Thunder Wave but lacking room for it all.

    [Gen 1] OU (1U) replay: Enigami vs. tidaas - Pokémon Showdown


    There's no questioning that Snorlax is overcentralizing in GSC. With Latias' access to Recover combined with decent bulk and strong supportive moves such as Charm, Reflect, Roar, and even Attract, Latias will add a strong new option to check Snorlax in the GSC metagame.

    [Gen 2] OU replay: Enigami vs. FriendOfMrGolem12O - Pokémon Showdown


    And last but certainly not least, Latias in ADV. This is less a move to address any issues with the metagame, and more a strong belief that Latias without Soul Dew is not banworthy in ADV OU. Any Latias set besides a support set of some kind must have Dragon Claw, if for no reason other than to hit other Latias super-effectively. Any other move that Latias would run is resisted by Latias short of Ice Beam, which doesn't really do anything important that STAB Dragon Claw doesn't. Recover should be on any set short of maybe Wish + Protect. Without Calm Mind it can't really do much to break through the opponent's team. So any decent offensive Latias always run Dragon Claw, Calm Mind and Recover. Without Refresh, it's defeated easily by Blissey, and HP Fire or Thunderbolt can certainly help vs Steel types but Pokemon like Metagross and Jirachi are still good checks even if it has super-effective coverage against them. Snatch Blissey exists as a way to beat even Refresh variants of Latias. Also your typical special walls like Snorlax and Regice check it well, and Tyranitar checks it well too. Support sets could work, with Thunder Wave or Light Screen, for example, but shouldn't cause any negative effect to the metagame. The offensive sets almost always require trapping support, which tends to limit a team's defensive integrity, and many of its best answers are staples of the tier as it is - Tyranitar, Blissey, Jirachi, Snorlax, and Metagross being the most standout examples. Defensively it is admittedly very good at what it does, but it answers a pretty small, yet important, selection of Pokemon. Electrics, Swampert, Celebi (to some extent depending on the sets), and Moltres are the main things that it answers. Altogether, this leads to a Pokemon that is nowhere close to broken.

    Secondly, a quick history lesson: When ADV first came out, on NetBattle, Celebi and Jirachi were banned. However, at some point the owners of NetBattle decided that these Pokemon were fine, made them legal, and we have never questioned whether we should ban them ever again. It is very easy to imagine that, had they not been freed, we would be arguing to this day that if these Pokemon were added to ADV 1U/OU they would centralise the metagame or be broken. I think that if the same had been done with Latias we would find ourselves in the same position, and furthermore I suspect that we would rank its viability lower than that of Jirachi.


    Latias is now playable in 1U for RBY, GSC and ADV on the Pokemon Perfect Showdown server. All currently running tournaments for these metagames will keep Latias banned, but all future tournaments for them will have Latias legal. Tomorrow I'll be making a thread to discuss Latias' unbanning in greater detail and let the players who have tested the changes explain their reasoning for why they believe Latias' presence will improve our 1U metagames.
     
    Chrysalis, CZ., Alice and 7 others like this.
  2. Mister Tim

    Mister Tim The most handsome man on PP Season Host

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    The funniest thing here that tin and top player in one sentence. Try better next year!
     
    Chrysalis likes this.
  3. Lojh

    Lojh Above Average GSCer Member

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    Lati doesnt even do much vs lax in gsc :\
    Nice afd meme
     
  4. DarkCyborg

    DarkCyborg I represent the power of Ice! Member

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    Happy April Fools day for you guys too!
     
  5. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Catto of Furr and Power Member

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    I like this, lets keep latias free in at least adv on april 2nd too
     
  6. FriendOfMrGolem120

    FriendOfMrGolem120 aka. "FOMG" Moderator

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    I didn't realise that during our game but Latias didn't have a gender in GSC even though it was shown as female in the teambuilder. This needs to be fixed as otherwise Attract can't be used successfully.
    To show that this bug is competitively relevant, I created an alt called "Attractive Latias" and will try to use Attract in every game to increase the awareness of that glitch so that the playerbase can push the developers to fix it.
     
    Disaster Area and Enigami like this.
  7. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    Bug has been fixed, Latias is now attractive to males ;)
     
  8. CrapAtRBY

    CrapAtRBY Member

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    Thank you for this common sense solution, the player base has been crying out for this for years and finally, our lord and saviour Engami, has defeated the corrupt administration, RBY has been saved.
     
    Chrysalis and Disaster Area like this.
  9. Enigami

    Enigami Moderator

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    I now regret having announced Latias being freed in RBY and GSC at the start of the post. I think the effect would've been stronger if those had been mentioned towards the end and after Latias in ADV so that it'd have taken a minute reading through before getting to the preposterous part. It was fun though, just wish I had more time to expand on my bogus explanation for GSC Latias. I'll be removing the changes this weekend so everyone has time to play around with Latias in RBY/GSC if they want. It goes without saying they're not legal for tournament play though!

    I want to give special thanks to FriendOfMrGolem120 for playing along and taking credit for his doppelganger's actions, and Disaster Area for the #FreeLatias meme which gave me the idea "what if Latias was freed in EVERYTHING?"
     
  10. Disaster Area

    Disaster Area Little Catto of Furr and Power Member

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    keep rby ou/gsc ou + lati as side playable "april fools" metas yn
     
    FriendOfMrGolem120 likes this.

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